Jay_28 Posted February 10, 2014 Report Share Posted February 10, 2014 As per title I hear the rubber oem brake line is superior to that of a stainless steel braided brake hose... Any thoughts or opinions please from those running braided hoses Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dublet Posted February 10, 2014 Report Share Posted February 10, 2014 The braid hides the true condition of the line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay_28 Posted February 10, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 10, 2014 The braid hides the true condition of the line. good point if one were to fit a new oem rubber hose vs a new steel braided hose would pedal feel be similar? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
armoredfist2002 Posted February 10, 2014 Report Share Posted February 10, 2014 From what I have come across on the net, pedal feel will be stiffer with a braided hose, rubber can expand similar to a balloon under pressure which the braided hoses don't, which is why braided give a stiffer pedal feel. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_Chris_ Posted February 10, 2014 Report Share Posted February 10, 2014 I fitted them on my old rally car for the resistance to cuts from stones etc. No noticable change in pedal feel (heard this reported from others too). I suspect with the celicas reputation for bulkhead flex you'd get far more reduction of spongyness by fitting a brace to the master cylinder across to the suspension turrett. As above, the braid hides the pipe underneath so the first you will know of age degradation is when the brakes fail. Also, there is a known problem with the superstrut on the gen 6 which applies large twisting movements to the pipes which braided lines can't cope with. The was an issue with Fensport ones which were replaced free once more R&D had come up with a solution. I wouldn't bet other suppliers have even acknowledged the problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davetrigz Posted February 10, 2014 Report Share Posted February 10, 2014 I fitted them on my old rally car for the resistance to cuts from stones etc. No noticable change in pedal feel (heard this reported from others too). I suspect with the celicas reputation for bulkhead flex you'd get far more reduction of spongyness by fitting a brace to the master cylinder across to the suspension turrett. As above, the braid hides the pipe underneath so the first you will know of age degradation is when the brakes fail. Also, there is a known problem with the superstrut on the gen 6 which applies large twisting movements to the pipes which braided lines can't cope with. The was an issue with Fensport ones which were replaced free once more R&D had come up with a solution. I wouldn't bet other suppliers have even acknowledged the problem. So whats this problem then as I have a set of stainless hoses ready to fit? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ams Posted February 11, 2014 Report Share Posted February 11, 2014 Also, there is a known problem with the superstrut on the gen 6 which applies large twisting movements to the pipes which braided lines can't cope with. The was an issue with Fensport ones which were replaced free once more R&D had come up with a solution. I wouldn't bet other suppliers have even acknowledged the problem. Only celica ive seen with problematic hoses was a gen7 with superstrut and braided lines - it did kind of put me off braided lines Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daytona Posted February 11, 2014 Report Share Posted February 11, 2014 Chris is correct. I renewed pads discs hoses to braided and fresh fluid. It did improve the spongebob feel a bit. At least if not more improvement was made by the later addition of the brake brace. If I was doing it again I would probably do the caliper upgrade to avensis though. The brakes stop the car well enough now and after 9 months my brain has sdjusted to not panicing over inch and a half of travel! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkey Boy 1 Posted February 11, 2014 Report Share Posted February 11, 2014 Had braided hoses on all my motorbikes (which had hydraulic brakes) gave you a lot more braking efficiency and no spongeyness. to the feel. Fitted them to my Celica and it made quite a difference too. The construction is different. Standard OEM rubber pipes are just that, rubber. Braided hoses have a plastic tube covered in stainless steel braid then a plastic coloured coating. The plastic tube flexes but does not balloon like the rubber pipe does. Why do you think nearly all performance cars have braided hoses fitted ? Rubber pipes probably have a shorter life than braided hoses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_Chris_ Posted February 11, 2014 Report Share Posted February 11, 2014 By the fundamental laws of physics, hoses cannot alter brake efficiency unless they are blocked. Pressure at one end cannot increase at the other. The only possible difference is a change of expansion of the pipe, which will affect sponginess only. I suspect some of the reported improvements are a combination of the placebo effect, and the fact that old contaminated brake fluid has been changed for fresh, and then bled. If you wish to see the past reports of problems with braided pipes, do the following google search. You will need a gt4oc login to see the results though. st205 issue braided hoses fensport or http://www.gt4dc.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=1471&hilit=fensport+braided+hoses Dear All,We have become aware of a problem with our brake line kit for the Celica GT4 ST205. The front lower hoses in a few cases have become loose or have broken.The fault has appeared after a period of time due to the braided hose twisting, when cornering. We have developed a new version which, due to running a different route, the problem cannot happen again.This is a very serious problem and we urge you all to change the lower hoses immediately, to the newer version, which will be supplied to you free of charge.We will be contacting everyone who has a set, over the next few days.If anyone wishes to send us an email with your delivery address details we are ready to post out replacements immediately. Please send email to sales@fensport.co.ukIf anyone has sold their car, could they please forward the new owners details?Please be aware this problem is only relative to the ST205.Thank you all for your understanding, we are extremely sorry about this and apologise for any inconvenience caused.Best RegardsAdrian As I said above, I doubt many other suppliers would be as reputable as Fensport. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Insanity-74 Posted February 11, 2014 Report Share Posted February 11, 2014 (edited) On a non superstrut car the braided hoses will be fine, you should not have many problems. The only obvious problem is with superstrut suspension and the twisting force it imposes on the brake line...... the only way I could think of overcoming this is to have a full length braided line from the connection on the inner wing all the way to the calliper. This would share the twisting force over a greater length of pipe reducing the stresses and strains imposed upon it. I spent some time with HEL trying to help them develop a braided line for the ST205, but they rushed into things, ballsed it up, and I gave up with them in the end. I am probably going to stick with standard lines on my rebuild unless I get some custom lines made for me. If you are set on fitting braided lines then just check them regularly as when they fail, due to their structure, they fail completely. Edited February 11, 2014 by Insanity-74 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrodaiGT4 Posted February 11, 2014 Report Share Posted February 11, 2014 i am cautious of braided hoses as you cant see the condition of the hose as mentioned above.. I would only buy them off someone like fensport would be willing to stand over them as sometimes even big companies have quality issues (parts made by cheapest bidder) and the fault is put down to "incorrect" fitment.. in my eyes with tyres, brakes,suspension.. quality over price wins always if you want braided go for it just please no ebay specials for everyone's sakes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay_28 Posted February 12, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 12, 2014 i am cautious of braided hoses as you cant see the condition of the hose as mentioned above.. I would only buy them off someone like fensport would be willing to stand over them as sometimes even big companies have quality issues (parts made by cheapest bidder) and the fault is put down to "incorrect" fitment.. in my eyes with tyres, brakes,suspension.. quality over price wins always if you want braided go for it just please no ebay specials for everyone's sakes Lol, have decided to try and bought a Set of HEL lines from a reputable seller Freakyparts 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daytona Posted February 12, 2014 Report Share Posted February 12, 2014 Lol, have decided to try and bought a Set of HEL lines from a reputable seller Freakyparts They work just fine on mine! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trebor4460 Posted February 12, 2014 Report Share Posted February 12, 2014 Big improvement with braided lines on my motorbike, original lines were over 10 years old so expansion in the lines was prob a lot to do with why the stainless hoses did such a good job, they were Hel lines, a reputable make and quality lines. Now on my Celica I have again fitted Hel lines in conjunction with the Avensis calipers and a brake stopper, again the original lines were 13 years old so again expansion in the lines can cause a lot of sponginess.... and the original Celi brakes have plenty of that.... anyways now the brakes are a big improvement and the pedal has a lot firmer feel and the lines imo certainly played their part in getting the brakes this good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Limeymk1 Posted February 19, 2014 Report Share Posted February 19, 2014 I have the HEL lines on my SS3 and there seems to be plenty of length in the longer pair of lines to compensate for the extra movement of the front suspension. Can't comment on any improvement over stock as the brakes were in a pretty poor state when I fitted them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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