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E10 Petrol september 2021!!!


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46 minutes ago, slybunda said:

https://www.whatcar.com/advice/owning/e10-petrol-what-is-it-and-how-could-it-affect-you/n18069

 

currently E5 has no issues but will E10 nacker our cars out?

Toyota's advice is that any European car post-1997 is safe for E10 use bar two exceptions.

 

Quote

E10 petrol is cleared for use in all Toyota European petrol models made from January 1998, excluding:

  • Avensis 2.0 litre with engine 1AZ-FSE made between July 2000 and October 2008.
  • Avensis 2.4 litre with engine 2AZ-FSE made between June 2003 and October 2008.

 

Edited by Chaotic.Entity
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https://www.gov.uk/check-vehicle-e10-petrol

 

Can check at the gov site but, always worth contacting the manufacture direct if unsure or for more unique models though...  Fingers crossed, our Celica's am fine. 

 

Question is, what can we do if we think it knackered our car? And how would we even prove it?

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So i'm guessing any gen 4 owners will struggle. Saying that I'm not worried yet as I believe it to be something that'll roll out down south first and won't hit the north west for ages. Plus even when they do they'll still have to keep some E5 pumps going at each station 

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10 hours ago, Rogueraven said:

https://www.gov.uk/check-vehicle-e10-petrol

 

Can check at the gov site but, always worth contacting the manufacture direct if unsure or for more unique models though...  Fingers crossed, our Celica's am fine. 

 

Question is, what can we do if we think it knackered our car? And how would we even prove it?

Very easy to prove with independent report even AA or RAC will provide it if your broken down. If they see the fuel lines rotted out or bits of rubber clogging up fuel injection pump then you can get replacement engine etc done at government cost.

However thats if your car is listed as compatible with e10 on that gov.uk link. If not then that means government has not cleared your car to be e10 safe and you out the fuel in at your own risk.

 

I know some classic car guys who have changed out just the fuel hoses and some o rings to ptfe lined or teflon or something which is like e85 compatible so they are ok for it since they got fuel injection engines.

Carb guys got more issues and there was a large thread on mg forum about high ethanol fuel causing leaner burn and more heat. But mg = rover so nows a good time for them to stock up on headgaskets. 

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If 5% ethanol doesn't rot fuel lines, why should 10%.

 

IMO the biggest danger is to GT4 owners with aftermarket ecus with less safety margin. Ethanol will run weaker on an open loop map.

 

Ethanol has a higher RON which should reduce detonation, however I suspect they will just reduce the other octane boosters so no overall increase.

 

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i saw a youtube video that explained that ethanol fuel has less energy density measured in BTU's so if fuel amount is not increased then it can cause engine to run hotter. this was a carb engine they were showing it on saying the carb jet needs to be bigger to get more fuel through it. but i cant remember if this was e85 or e10 now.

im guessing fuel injection engines the ecu will auto compensate this with longer injector duty.

does mean with e10 you get less miles per tank so you have to use more fuel to do the same mileage which means more emissions? dunno if its actually going to be beneficial to the environment.

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Stoich afr of Ethanol is 9, petrol is 14.7. For mixtures, it's a linear scale. By my sums that makes 14.1 for E10 so about 4% more fuel needed.

 

Closed loop systems will compensate and will lose ecconomy.

Open loop systems will run slightly weaker. Since open loop tend to run rich, this is possibly a benefit. The danger is open loop with aftermarket mapping with safety margin removed.

 

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1 hour ago, Fuppylodders said:

Soo.... Is it only the engine it affects? Or potentially fuel pumps in the fuel tanks too? 

 

Plastics too which is most of the interior in jap cars.

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E10 is in my local Sainsburys now, I run my Jazz on it.

Super unleaded’s, V Power etc is all E5 anyway so nothing changes for the performance cars :thumbsup:

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Thats good to hear. Iv got petrol lawn mower and pressure washer which i run on momentum 99 just to make sure i get as less ethanol as possible since these engines sit around for a lot of time ethanol can be bad for them.

Apparently esso does ethanol free fuel but i cant get any of it in Coventry.

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Not sure how up to date this is, it has no indication of when it was posted.

 

http://www.ethanil.co.uk/league-table/

 

Past rumours lead me to believe that tesco 99 gets it's increase in RON from using more Ethanol compared to Vpower, therefore Vpower produces more power and gives better economy (for the reasons above). Since it isn't in the league table above, maybe it does indeed use the maximum 5% currently allowed.

 

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From shell website:

https://support.shell.com/hc/en-gb/articles/115005935369-What-is-Ethanol-

 

"This means that, in the UK, Shell regular unleaded and Shell V-Power unleaded are likely to contain some ethanol, but it will not be present at more than 5% (in accordance with current UK specification requirements)."

 

 

So yep vpower also has ethanol and they charge like 15p per litre more than momentum99.

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21 hours ago, slybunda said:

From shell website:

https://support.shell.com/hc/en-gb/articles/115005935369-What-is-Ethanol-

 

"This means that, in the UK, Shell regular unleaded and Shell V-Power unleaded are likely to contain some ethanol, but it will not be present at more than 5% (in accordance with current UK specification requirements)."

 

 

So yep vpower also has ethanol and they charge like 15p per litre more than momentum99.

tell me about it mate ive been paying £1.51.9 a litre for vpower at our local shell but after a full tank i have been finding it seems to last a bit longer than the ultimate bp ...in fact i was going with bp and paying £1.30ish but then noticed i wanted to go back on vpower and our 3.2v6 quattro goes on the shell 95 fuelsave and seems to run better on that ...

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