Intercooler on N/A engine

[wilo]

What you want is to turbo charge your engine but you don't want the cost.

Another way of lowering the temperature of the inlet air is water injection. However, that also has a weight penalty in terms of needing to have a water reservoir on board, making any performance gains of that worth less.

Given that almost every other topic of yours is "how do I get more power from my Beams", I don't think you're content with the car at all but hey ho.

im very content with the car but don't see any harm in asking opinions on trying to squeeze more power out of if possible .

I much prefer to make debatable topics ( it is a forum after all ) than make sarcastic or negative comments on every post that's a target for such comments .

If you have a problem with me or the topics I post about then just ignore them if they upset you .

I make no excuse for my lack of knowledge on engines or mechanics and don't pretend to be a know it all because im not but if I was I sure would do my damn best to guide and help others with out belittling them or making unhelpful comments .

Sounds like you want to play around with the engine and mods etc, which I admit is lots of fun, but you really want to turbo it for any of these things to make a difference. If that's not the route, maybe leave the engine alone and do some other styling/suspension etc mods ?

If what dubs says is true really, what you really want is a nice white twin turbo supra.....

no Dubs is wrong . the thread was purely a debate on the possibilities of such a device as stated , I read the info on a yank forum and was curious that's all

[digs]

no Dubs is wrong . the thread was purely a debate on the possibilities of such a device as stated , I read the info on a yank forum and was curious that's all

is good to debate

now, about nox.....

[dublet]

im very content with the car but don't see any harm in asking opinions on trying to squeeze more power out of if possible .

I much prefer to make debatable topics ( it is a forum after all ) than make sarcastic or negative comments on every post that's a target for such comments .

If you have a problem with me or the topics I post about then just ignore them if they upset you .

I make no excuse for my lack of knowledge on engines or mechanics and don't pretend to be a know it all because im not but if I was I sure would do my damn best to guide and help others with out belittling them or making unhelpful comments .

:rolleyes:

I'm actually being very helpful. Explaining to you as to why NA engines don't have inter coolers fitted as well as offering alternatives (e.g. water cooling). I have no problem with you or your topics, you just need a bit of realism about what your car is and what the options are. You're far from the first person to try and chase power.

Nitrous oxide is a good idea as well, though you may explode your engine if you do so.

no Dubs is wrong

I'm never wrong.

Edited April 20, 2014 by dublet

[wilo]

:rolleyes:

I'm actually being very helpful. Explaining to you as to why NA engines don't have inter coolers fitted as well as offering alternatives (e.g. water cooling). I have no problem with you or your topics, you just need a bit of realism about what your car is and what the options are. You're far from the first person to try and chase power.

Nitrous oxide is a good idea as well, though you may explode your engine if you do so.

I'm never wrong.

apologies then I iv misunderstood .

some one pointed out that your first post in the topic was a sarcastic remark at my expense so thought your intent was just to try wind me up and I don't handle confrontation of any kind very well and immediately get defensive if I feel someone is taking the piss with me .

And your right about trying to chase power , the problem is im getting so much conflicting advice from on here and in the real world I just don't know what to do .

All I am sure about is that im defo keeping the beams (got to much in it now to let go ) and would like some one to give me prices for the things iv inquired about .

Iv asked FENSPORT and UNICHIP to piggy back the ECU ....fensport cant do it and unichip have very poor communication when trying to work with them .

Iv been told by 2 companies in York they will turbo it but I have to source the kit myself ....havnt got a clue what to get to complete the job or where to get it from.

Iv been told to supercharge it but cant find anyone or a full price for such job .

so its not like iv not been trying , its ok people saying do this do that but what I really need is someone to say you can do these things and it will cost you this much (start to finish)

:rolleyes:

I'm actually being very helpful. Explaining to you as to why NA engines don't have inter coolers fitted as well as offering alternatives (e.g. water cooling). I have no problem with you or your topics, you just need a bit of realism about what your car is and what the options are. You're far from the first person to try and chase power.

Nitrous oxide is a good idea as well, though you may explode your engine if you do so.

I'm never wrong.

you were about the N/A intercooler ...that was just a hypothetical debate

is good to debate

now, about nox.....

not really ever been a fan of NOX tbh ...as Dubs pointed out has the potential to fook your engine .

And with me been impulsive I would never be off the button so not a good choice for me personally

[c_jnz]

Water/Meth injection to keep temp down and protect the engine.

Another use for water injection I was watching some videos on youtube about steam cleaning the inside of an engine by spraying water into the intake, didn't believe it until I seen it but apparently it works.

[_Chris_]

apologies then I iv misunderstood .

some one pointed out that your first post in the topic was a sarcastic remark at my expense so thought your intent was just to try wind me up and I don't handle confrontation of any kind very well and immediately get defensive if I feel someone is taking the piss with me .

And your right about trying to chase power , the problem is im getting so much conflicting advice from on here and in the real world I just don't know what to do .

All I am sure about is that im defo keeping the beams (got to much in it now to let go ) and would like some one to give me prices for the things iv inquired about .

Iv asked FENSPORT and UNICHIP to piggy back the ECU ....fensport cant do it and unichip have very poor communication when trying to work with them .

Iv been told by 2 companies in York they will turbo it but I have to source the kit myself ....havnt got a clue what to get to complete the job or where to get it from.

Iv been told to supercharge it but cant find anyone or a full price for such job .

so its not like iv not been trying , its ok people saying do this do that but what I really need is someone to say you can do these things and it will cost you this much (start to finish)

you were about the N/A intercooler ...that was just a hypothetical debate

not really ever been a fan of NOX tbh ...as Dubs pointed out has the potential to fook your engine .

And with me been impulsive I would never be off the button so not a good choice for me personally

Something you need to understand is there there is a lot of hype and BS spoken on the internet, especially on forums. There is also a certain amount of teasing done when people leave themselves wide open to it - Dubs being one of the worst wind up merchants on here. No harm or offense intended I'm sure, just done for comedy.

To answer your main question directly - any car is a compromise of power, handling, reliability, ecconomy and comfort. Any increase in one will inevitably reduce at least one other. - e.g. fit stiffer suspension to improve handling and your teeth will chatter going down a bumpy road. Increase engine power and it will drink fuel and the extra stress will, at best, cause accellerated wear, at worst will break gearboxes, clutches and engine parts.

Toyota and all the other manufacturers spend millions of pounds on R&D to come up with a good compromise of all these. Each model of car is aimed at a different compromise to suit individual needs. Celicas being a 'sports saloon' are aimed slightly more at the power and handling side and less on ecconomy and comfort. Somehow amateurs - people with very little knowledge or experience of automotive engineering - think they can make significant gains in one without loss of another, because Toyota got it so wrong originally.

Put simply - start doing any significant 'mods' to your car, particularly engine mods, and you will very likely end up with an unreliable money pit that you can't afford to drive because it drinks fuel / oil / meths / mitrous and breaks every few weeks.

If you want a faster car - buy a faster car. A GT4 will give you a massive performance increase, will cost you far far less than the mods you require to get the same performance from yours, will probably be more ecconomical, and a good condition one will do tens of thousands of miles without significant problems.

[wilo]

Something you need to understand is there there is a lot of hype and BS spoken on the internet, especially on forums. There is also a certain amount of teasing done when people leave themselves wide open to it - Dubs being one of the worst wind up merchants on here. No harm or offense intended I'm sure, just done for comedy.

To answer your main question directly - any car is a compromise of power, handling, reliability, ecconomy and comfort. Any increase in one will inevitably reduce at least one other. - e.g. fit stiffer suspension to improve handling and your teeth will chatter going down a bumpy road. Increase engine power and it will drink fuel and the extra stress will, at best, cause accellerated wear, at worst will break gearboxes, clutches and engine parts.

Toyota and all the other manufacturers spend millions of pounds on R&D to come up with a good compromise of all these. Each model of car is aimed at a different compromise to suit individual needs. Celicas being a 'sports saloon' are aimed slightly more at the power and handling side and less on ecconomy and comfort. Somehow amateurs - people with very little knowledge or experience of automotive engineering - think they can make significant gains in one without loss of another, because Toyota got it so wrong originally.

Put simply - start doing any significant 'mods' to your car, particularly engine mods, and you will very likely end up with an unreliable money pit that you can't afford to drive because it drinks fuel / oil / meths / mitrous and breaks every few weeks.

If you want a faster car - buy a faster car. A GT4 will give you a massive performance increase, will cost you far far less than the mods you require to get the same performance from yours, will probably be more ecconomical, and a good condition one will do tens of thousands of miles without significant problems.

Thanks for heads up . im not generally a forum type of person tbh so will keep this in mind .

Also I have contemplated getting a GT4 before but if I did the beams would have to go and that's not really a realistic option as I bought the beams in December for £2300 and with all the work iv had done plus repairs and parts at Toyota it now sits at + £4500 .

If I sold it now id be lucky to get my purchase price back and tbh I really like the car .

If increasing the performance is not an option then ill be content how it is but I have to explore the options available or ill never know .

In realty I would spend another £2500 regardless of practicality just for the satisfaction of achieving some of the ideas iv had but I think supercharging would be close to the £5000 mark and while obtaining that amount of cash isn't impossible i feel that's to much to be spending on a 1998 car so my options are limited .

That said tho , most of my ideas are just ideas seeking advice on available options but if at the end of the day the Beams has to stay as she is then so be it .......at least i can say iv tried and explored all avenues .

[Briano]

People have run your engine on throttle bodies and made bug power I agree with Chris though you will loose in another area

I fitted full trd super strut suspension to one of my gen6 and lost all the comfort that I loved about the gen6

The st202 is already the best all round coupe that money can buy and the beams is better again............ no need for more power in a beams in my opinion

[_Chris_]

There's only one way to learn - and that is to ask, debate ideas and listen. We all started with zero knowledge when we popped out of our mother.

Wanting to improve your car is natural. We've all done it, some of us still do knowing full what what's going to happen

My 185 han't driven anywhere in 2 years, currently sat in the workshop with a cracked block waiting to have time to build another engine, fit the garrett turbo, and design / fabricate a front mount intercooler & rad system I'm happy with.

I also have a 205 which I've kept standard (apart from LPG) as a workhorse for my long service trips I do. Even with that one modification - better ecconomy at 70p / litre - it's at a cost of me having to re-shim the valve clearances every 15K miles ish as LPG causes rapid valve seat wear. This car works out as cheap to run as a small diesel, in fact cheaper than buying new if depreciation per mile is factored in.

[sonic]

Teflon intake gaskets and hot water throttle body disconnection

Done this on my 5 , see the idea on other forums ( skyline etc ) but couldnt find any for yota , so made my own , one from the plen to intake and one from the plen to the throttle , and one slab of Teflon under the plen to stop the rocker from heating it up

My theory was cold air comes into filter , which was a sealed carbon intake with air taken off original cold air feed , which then hits a very hot throttle ( heated by rad water ) , into hot plen , heated by heat transfer from rocker and intake

I can't say what bhp I gained or lost , all I know , as a party piece , after a 2 hour drive I could safely stick my face to the plen and it was mildly warm , when before you would end up with 2nd degree burns , so in 'theory ' it worked , but no figures to back it up

And yes I know all about 2nd degree burns

[wilo]

People have run your engine on throttle bodies and made bug power I agree with Chris though you will loose in another area

I fitted full trd super strut suspension to one of my gen6 and lost all the comfort that I loved about the gen6

The st202 is already the best all round coupe that money can buy and the beams is better again............ no need for more power in a beams in my opinion

Did you have to mention throttle bodies :rolleyes: ...you'll start me off again .

You just know that im going to investigate this option now

Teflon intake gaskets and hot water throttle body disconnection

Done this on my 5 , see the idea on other forums ( skyline etc ) but couldnt find any for yota , so made my own , one from the plen to intake and one from the plen to the throttle , and one slab of Teflon under the plen to stop the rocker from heating it up

My theory was cold air comes into filter , which was a sealed carbon intake with air taken off original cold air feed , which then hits a very hot throttle ( heated by rad water ) , into hot plen , heated by heat transfer from rocker and intake

I can't say what bhp I gained or lost , all I know , as a party piece , after a 2 hour drive I could safely stick my face to the plen and it was mildly warm , when before you would end up with 2nd degree burns , so in 'theory ' it worked , but no figures to back it up

And yes I know all about 2nd degree burns

Wish I had you knowledge pal ...id then know what to get and what to do .

I like tinkering with the car but would love to know how to fit turbos ,intercoolers etc .

Not to keen on the 2nd degree burns tho

[Zuban]

The beams already has the spacer between the intake manifold and head that helps prevent heat migration. Tuning wise I think the best option is to look into a standalone ecu and mapping, you will get more power and driveability, plus it will then there and ready should you decide to boost or na tune at a later date. Takes a chunk out of the cost of any of those projects and you get the benefit meantime.

[wilo]

The beams already has the spacer between the intake manifold and head that helps prevent heat migration. Tuning wise I think the best option is to look into a standalone ecu and mapping, you will get more power and driveability, plus it will then there and ready should you decide to boost or na tune at a later date. Takes a chunk out of the cost of any of those projects and you get the benefit meantime.

have looked mate , no one will touch it inc fensport . and don't want to be traveling silly miles to tuning places down south tbh.

I like your thinking tho ...get it mapped just incase I decide to invest further

[digs]

why not piggy back, neutral tune for now, but rig up wideband and log everything, throttle position, injector duty, knock, etc. Then you have a good base map to learn how to tune it in future ? Can do it yourself then after learning about tuning ?

[Mondo]

Highly detailed Beams supercharger thread!

Read the above and be prepared to be dumbfounded by the cost involved in supercharging the Beams engine! As for nitrous... given that your engine currently runs a rather high compression ratio, I'd be disinclined to force much more pressure through it, to be honest.

Less weight = more power. Strip the car out. Or just enjoy the driveability and fun factor that the Beams provides. You may never be able to compete with the Big Boys in it, but you'll still surprise quite a few cars out there.

[ams]

if your car is your daily - its going to be tricky experimenting - i have a 2nd car that im using to fit all my parts that ive accumulated over the last few years but not fitted as cant take my car off the road

[sonic]

Did you have to mention throttle bodies :rolleyes: ...you'll start me off again .

You just know that im going to investigate this option now

Wish I had you knowledge pal ...id then know what to get and what to do .

:

I may siggy that , cus I know jack

[wilo]

how did a thread about theoretically fitting a intercooler to a N/A engine turn into a modded Beams thread .

And as iv stated a billion times guys I would love to have the damn thing piggy backed but I need company names and prices :rolleyes: .

I know supercharging is out of the question being possibly near the 5k mark but piggy back and remap and maybe turboing it are within what I would be prepared to pay ....so come on some one must know who is competent to do either of the above .

Only criteria is that the company must be with Yorkshire or not far from:)

[splinter]

Something like this.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=AuJbwWsZADg

Interesting debate. But as mentioned. A good panel filter and standalone ecu will see better results.

[wilo]

Something like this.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=AuJbwWsZADg

Interesting debate. But as mentioned. A good panel filter and standalone ecu will see better results.

Not seen that you tube clip before , very interesting but short lived gains tbh .

Also not a gen 7 fan but that motor of yours looks sweeeeet