Shell V Power fuel

[sh3p]

Momentum 99 is tesco

oopsy my bad it is indeed must remember to engage brain when just woken up from nights hehe

[harv_j]

It CAN give better fuel consumption and increased bhp /performance. however, this is selecive marketing. for this to happen, a car must be suffering from decreased mpg and performance due to issues with fuel.

The higher the octane fuel, the cleaner it burns as far as i understand. honestly, i dont think on either the 140 or 190 engines require premium fuel unlike some bigger more powerful engines that can be damaged from lower octane fuel.

One of my friends has an impreza wrx sti running at around 450 bhp that needs premium fuel and a boat load of addatives to ensure the engine runs at full capacity. im sure some of the mechanics on here will be able to explain more.

[RichieRich]

One thing to you need to conceder is that with the ECU on the 140 & 190 Gen 7 it has a standard fuelling learning curve if you change fuel the ECU takes time to adjust and adapt to the new fuel, because this change is slow you don’t see an immediate change in performance or it then goes unnoticed. If you change fuel let it mix around with what’s in the tank for a few miles then reset the ECU (discount the battery for 30 seconds – 1 min) then this will force the ECU to learn off your new tank of fuel and you will then fell the difference.

Standard Fuel 95 RON

V Power 98 RON

See not the same?

[Black Knight]

I once heard it said that basic Unleaded fuel all comes from the same refineries, so whether you buy it from Tesco, Shell, BP or whatever you are getting the same stuff in the end.

Now as for each companies premium brands I’m not sure, but I have always found I get a little more distance out of a tank of Tesco’s Momentum 99 than the standard stuff, and as Tesco is the only source of fuel around me I don’t exactly have a lot of choice!

Every now and then I also stick a dose of Redex through the tank to flush the crud out, always seems to give a slight benefit

[Razorjack]

Those calling it a placebo are usually ones with N/A engines, who won't see a benefit from these fuels anyway. My experiences with my UK ST205 (I've kept fuel/mileage records for 5 years now):

95 Unleaded: No chance even though its a UK model, it really doesn't seem to run well on this. MPG sat around 22-23mpg. Power delivery felt lumpy across the rev range so I didn't use it for too long! Primarily purchased this from supermarkets or Esso.

97 Super unleaded: Better, ran this as the daily fuel for a good few years and was fine. MPG was about 28, but dropped to 25 as the car got older (currently 180k) - even servicing didn't raise the economy back up. Haven't used it for about 2 years regularly though, as I've been using either Momentum or VPower. Primarily purchased this from Sainsburys or Tesco, sometimes Esso.

99 Momentum: MPG is about 25-27. I've noticed though since fitting the boost controller that on high boost (1.0-1.1) it can feel a touch lumpy, but for standard boost its fine. All purchased from Tesco.

VPower: Previously performed the same as Momentum, although on high boost its smooth. I've have noticed though on motorway/long runs it can reach 30mpg. All purchased from Shell of course.

I used to run 97 SUL mixed with periods of VPower, but now run a mix of either Momentum or VPower. I can't really give SUL another go, as the local Tesco has now switched to 99, and the Esso prices are ridiculous lately!

Keeping the car well serviced, tyres correctly inflated, ditching excess weight, changing driving style etc is all probably going to make more of a difference though. And to really notice a difference, you need to run a fuel for a long period of time (and, as said, reset ECU each time) to cater for differences in roads, traffic, weather/seasons, etc.

[edit] I've certainly seen things like Esso tankers filling up Sainsbury stations etc. Depends who they (supermarchéts) buy their fuel from I suppose, but it'll probably be whoever is cheapest

I'm sure I read somewhere that Tesco simply add ethanol to attain 99RON? No idea how true that is though.

Edited November 3, 2011 by Razorjack

[Bumblebee]

I once heard it said that basic Unleaded fuel all comes from the same refineries, so whether you buy it from Tesco, Shell, BP or whatever you are getting the same stuff in the end.

Now as for each companies premium brands I’m not sure, but I have always found I get a little more distance out of a tank of Tesco’s Momentum 99 than the standard stuff, and as Tesco is the only source of fuel around me I don’t exactly have a lot of choice!

Every now and then I also stick a dose of Redex through the tank to flush the crud out, always seems to give a slight benefit

I work for an oil refinery, i will speak to the lads in the lab when i get back to work and try to find out what the difference is between the supermarket fuels and the v power

And no i dont get cheap fuel, bloody shame tho

[edwardio]

I have just read that it appears that the government is looking to change standard unleaded. The plan is to double the bio content of the fuel if new EU laws arer made. This means any pre 93 or some modern cars would not be able to use it, alongside ay direct injection cars. Super Unleaded would remain the same though.

Therefore its possible pretty much everyone would go to Super Unleaded as it would probably be the cheaper option if the plans go ahead.

[hyper-wrap]

aside from the obvious benefits on a highly tuned engine. On anything else, it's futile. As has already been mentioned, even the cleanliness of the tanks they're held in is gonna make a big enough difference to render it all an expense not worth spending out on.

also, it is impossible, not matter how many years you run tests for, to tell the actual real difference. There's are hundreds, thousands, millions of factors that would simply negate any real proof.

age of car

age of tyres

engine condition, week old oil isn't gonna be as good as oil in on the day...

traffic...see amount of time spent idling, pootling along, accelerating, amount of fumes from other cars will mess up A/F ratios...

brakes would make a difference

how fat yer arse is would make a difference

climate makes a difference

s'all bullshit unless you have a trillion bhp supermegaturbocharged motor

I have just read that it appears that the government is looking to change standard unleaded. The plan is to double the bio content of the fuel if new EU laws arer made. This means any pre 93 or some modern cars would not be able to use it, alongside ay direct injection cars. Super Unleaded would remain the same though.

Therefore its possible pretty much everyone would go to Super Unleaded as it would probably be the cheaper option if the plans go ahead.

This another attempt to get rid of old cars and force people to buy new ones?

[JnrGT]

I only fill the Celica with V-Power or BP Ultimate (although the price of BP fuel is insane!)

I found with my FTO that you only notice the diffrence after using v power then switching back to normal fuel, it just feels sluggish, no idea about mpg.

[ismith61]

Certainly seems to be a variety of views on this...getting the feeling that the better fuel is definately going to be better for the engine but any noticable difference is likely to be the 'feel good' factor of using a better grade of fuel, like using the best oil you can afford - may not be noticable but is better for the car in general. So... for me, I will continue with the Shell (the garage is also on my way home from work!) and accept that the extra couple of quid every time I fill up is not going to make a great deal of difference but the engine is being treated to decent fuel (I don't buy supermarket brand scotch/vodka etc!)... Morrisons in Paignton is currently 131.9/litre for standard u/l and shell V Power is 139.9/litre.

Really interesting getting all the information though

[Bumblebee]

I have just read that it appears that the government is looking to change standard unleaded. The plan is to double the bio content of the fuel if new EU laws arer made. This means any pre 93 or some modern cars would not be able to use it, alongside ay direct injection cars. Super Unleaded would remain the same though.

Therefore its possible pretty much everyone would go to Super Unleaded as it would probably be the cheaper option if the plans go ahead.

this is supposed to be greener to produce, what total crap. When you work it all out this is no more environmentally friendly at all

The big problem is that we are running out of crude oil so they are trying to preserve the bit we have by adding the bio fuel.Also i bet if you look at the directors and major share holders of these bio fuels companys most of them will be in one way or another part of our government.Bent Bastards lining their own pockets at our expense.

Its about time more of the worlds governments put money into hydrogen cars, The only byproduct is water and not harmful gasses. The problem is that too many of the people who make the decisions in the world have a large interest in the oil companys and share values would plummet if oil useage dropped. Also the taxes the government receive from what we pay at the pumps is phenominal,oil companys only make pennys per litre profit .they say they are worried about green house gasses and the hole in the ozone layer but they are doing next to nothing to try sort this out

my god im rambling now ,

[hyper-wrap]

Wouldn't believe for a second that we're nearly out of crude oil...there's gonna be fucking gazillions of untapped sources all around the planet. It's impossible to tell how much oil is left because we can't look into the very mantel of the planet. What they're scaring people with is telling us they're running out of the currently tapped resources. Keep us buyin, innit.

[edwardio]

The issue is people feel that going greener byuying electric/hybrid/smaller engine cars will be cheaper to run. True at the moment, but there will be that tipping point when Mary who pays £35 road tax a year for her eco car, will see it jump to £100+ when the government realise that too many people have gone green.

If people buy less petrol/diesel, the government will tax something else and that will be road tax or an ECO Tax!

Wouldn't believe for a second that we're nearly out of crude oil...there's gonna be fucking gazillions of untapped sources all around the planet. It's impossible to tell how much oil is left because we can't look into the very mantel of the planet. What they're scaring people with is telling us they're running out of the currently tapped resources. Keep us buyin, innit.

Crude oil is naturally made by the planet, but what the problem is that we are probably using more than the extimate time the planet takes to make it.

However you are correct, that we don't know just how much oil is so far undiscovered. So the oil governing body who control the trade price of oil scare us byy sayign its running out & therefore puts up the price!

Edited November 3, 2011 by edwardio

[hyper-wrap]

The issue is people feel that going greener byuying electric/hybrid/smaller engine cars will be cheaper to run. True at the moment, but there will be that tipping point when Mary who pays £35 road tax a year for her eco car, will see it jump to £100+ when the government realise that too many people have gone green.

If people buy less petrol/diesel, the government will tax something else and that will be road tax or an ECO Tax!

Crude oil is naturally made by the planet, but what the problem is that we are probably using more than the extimate time the planet takes to make it.

However you are correct, that we don't know just how much oil is so far undiscovered. So the oil governing body who control the trade price of oil scare us byy sayign its running out & therefore puts up the price!

it takes over 10 billion years to produce what we're using up, it's made from an extinct species at the end of the day. According to BP we have over 40 years of uninterupted resources available at current usage rates. That's from known reserves. We're nowhere near outta the black stuff.

Oh and the prices have gone up cos of certain conflicts in shithole countries, nothing to do with amounts left.

[martin3df]

it takes over 10 billion years to produce what we're using up, it's made from an extinct species at the end of the day. According to BP we have over 40 years of uninterupted resources available at current usage rates. That's from known reserves. We're nowhere near outta the black stuff.

Oh and the prices have gone up cos of certain conflicts in shithole countries, nothing to do with amounts left.

You're right John that we aren't out of the black stuff yet, however don't forget that consumption increases year on year, infact it has to in order to stop the economy from collapsing! The real issue being that current reserves may well last 40 years at current levels of consumption, however the amount consumed each year increases exponentially. Not saying we should panic, I'm just saying this is something which not many people consider.

Also don't forget that oil is one of the most commonly used resources on the planet, and its not like its just being used for fuel. Oil is used in practically everything, almost all paints, plastics, rubbers, epoxys, electrical equipment, consumer goods, packaging . . . you name it . . . you need oil to make it. Demand for all of those things is increasing all the time too

[harv_j]

I have just read that it appears that the government is looking to change standard unleaded. The plan is to double the bio content of the fuel if new EU laws arer made. This means any pre 93 or some modern cars would not be able to use it, alongside ay direct injection cars. Super Unleaded would remain the same though.

Therefore its possible pretty much everyone would go to Super Unleaded as it would probably be the cheaper option if the plans go ahead.

The government are making insentives to sell bio fuel or E85 (85% ethanol content compared to 5% minimum in normal fuel) but there are massive issues with storing it. Because the fuel has a biological content, the climate inside fuel storage vessels (at petrol stations & in your car!!!) promote growth of foreign organisms (literally big fuck-off mushrooms) if there is any water content. It is near impossible to prevent water ingress into a fuel storage tank so i cant see it catching on. Most people in the industry are very wary of the product itself, especially retailers who risk wasting masses of cash on their fuel stock.

[hyper-wrap]

You're right John that we aren't out of the black stuff yet, however don't forget that consumption increases year on year, infact it has to in order to stop the economy from collapsing! The real issue being that current reserves may well last 40 years at current levels of consumption, however the amount consumed each year increases exponentially. Not saying we should panic, I'm just saying this is something which not many people consider.

Also don't forget that oil is one of the most commonly used resources on the planet, and its not like its just being used for fuel. Oil is used in practically everything, almost all paints, plastics, rubbers, epoxys, electrical equipment, consumer goods, packaging . . . you name it . . . you need oil to make it. Demand for all of those things is increasing all the time too

factoring in alternative fuels, recycling of electrical goods and the general consensus of 'go green', I can only see it going the other way. But I'm not even remotely versed on what's increasing and what's decreasing in use.

I know these biofuel cars are causing more pollution in production process alone that a normal car would from beginning of life to end of life though, or at least that's what the zeitgeist gobshite types would have you believe. Until I'm a scientist who does research on ALL the above to an extremely high standard, I'll stay neutral...as it all could be complete and utter bollocks.

The government are making insentives to sell bio fuel or E85 (85% ethanol content compared to 5% minimum in normal fuel) but there are massive issues with storing it. Because the fuel has a biological content, the climate inside fuel storage vessels (at petrol stations & in your car!!!) promote growth of foreign organisms (literally big fuck-off mushrooms) if there is any water content. It is near impossible to prevent water ingress into a fuel storage tank so i cant see it catching on. Most people in the industry are very wary of the product itself, especially retailers who risk wasting masses of cash on their fuel stock.

did I ever tell anyone how much I hate Mushrooms...

[martin3df]

factoring in alternative fuels, recycling of electrical goods and the general consensus of 'go green', I can only see it going the other way. But I'm not even remotely versed on what's increasing and what's decreasing in use.

I know these biofuel cars are causing more pollution in production process alone that a normal car would from beginning of life to end of life though, or at least that's what the zeitgeist gobshite types would have you believe. Until I'm a scientist who does research on ALL the above to an extremely high standard, I'll stay neutral...as it all could be complete and utter bollocks

I'm by no means an expert either John, just an amature enthusiast hahaha The problem with alternative fuels is that to date they cannot replace oil, and infact many of them (ethanol is a prime example) actually use more energy to make than they produce, which is obviously counter-productive.

You're right about the biofuel cars causing more pollution, although to be fair its just new production of any new car which produces pollution, the biofuel bit is sort of irrelevant. Its basically to do with energy consumption. As a simple example, an old car may well not be as efficient as a new car in terms of fuel, but by the time you have used the required energy and materials to cast a new block and engine internals, make the chassis and all the body panels, the motors and circuit boards, glass, tyres and everything else you need to make a new car (not to mention the energy used to get this stuff out of the ground and process it in the first place) then it would have been waaaaaaaaaay more efficient to just stick with the old car that you had in the first place.

Essentially what I'm driving at here is that its all a bit more complex than how much oil is in the ground. Even if you wanted to recycle 100% of waste material for example, theres the energy input required to melt the materials down etc. etc. etc. all provided by oil. I think you see what I'm getting at here anyway

I'm quite interested in this sort of stuff but not an expert by anyones standards! Just wanted to chuck my two pence in

I just find this energy input/output thing fascinating as there's just loads of bad and good information on both sides of the arguement. Like for example wind power gets immediately dismissed by a lot of people as it doesn't have the ability to produce collosal amounts of energy like oil does. However what nobody really talks about is the amount of energy which you have to put in to make a wind turbine and start producing power is far less than the energy required to construct an oil rig, drill thousands of ft into the ground underwater, pump the oil out, put it into a huge tanker and sail it halfway around the planet and fractionally distill it at thousands of degrees etc. etc. I have no answers, only questions but this is all very interesting to me.

I'm going to stop rambling on now! hahaha

[lankyalien]

Not much difference in my faff between V-Power and Momentum 99, except the price.

I don't run anything less than Momentum 99 though.

Likewise though I believe momentum is shell v-power. Spoke to a tanker driver once who said tesco momentum was shell.

[Bill T]

Biofuels aren't used to save oil per se, it's simply that to replace biofuel you drag CO2 out of the atmosphere (carbon neutral) whereas crude doesn't afford that luxury. And you don't need new cars to run from biofuel, Old chipfat is biofuel, and there are some clapped out old taxi's running on that. Wood is Biofuel and you can run 19th century steam trains on that.