freddie0 Posted March 1, 2013 Report Share Posted March 1, 2013 Hi all Last week I purchased a lovely set of Dotz Tupac 17" alloys "used for under 300 miles and like new condition" so the ad said, and they were a bargain price - so I thought. Delivered to my parents (both elderly and disabled) early Monday morning by the usual courier 'dump and sign', and I went round later to see them. All seemed great until I opened the second set of boxes and found two of the wheels to have damaged rims - flat spots on both. I immediately contacted the supplier to advise, who stated his disappointment and annoyance. He got back later to say that new replacements were too expensive, but could I get a price for repair while he spoke to the courier. Anyway, he claims courier won't budge as parents should have checked (they couldn't even lift the boxes, and even if opened I doubt would have noticed). Repair quote is £50 per wheel for damage, but then £100 per wheel for diamond cut finish to be re-done. Repair co. did query if damage was actually done by courier given pressure needed and the fact only the outer rim was damaged. Supplier only offering £50 towards the repair, no more. Says I can return but it is at my expense - the goods should have been checked. He won't refund the fitting kit either. He says that he is doing ME a favour and the ad says 'no refunds'. He is a wheel trader by profession and sold these as used on Ebay. Doesn't think Distance Selling Regs count therefore. Any suggestions? Do I just pay the courier and take the loss? If so can anyone suggest a cheap courier to send rims only (17")? Should I be able to return the lot and get a full refund - including him paying for collection? Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wickie Posted March 1, 2013 Report Share Posted March 1, 2013 http://www.paisleyfreight.com/alloy-wheel-courier.php These are recommended Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kev82 Posted March 1, 2013 Report Share Posted March 1, 2013 Hello, I've just had a good experience with www.wheelcarrier.co.uk. They are cheap but reliable and offer what I thought was a great service when collecting & shipping an exhaust, but as the name suggests, they specialise in Wheels / Tyres. Their website is not the best but they do respond quickly to emails and will offer a phone number to contact them on should it be requested. Under distance selling regulations, the seller has to issue a refund if the item was purchased via Buy it Now or Second Chance Offers on eBay, if the buyer requests it within 7 days (or longer if the seller accepts refunds). If it was a bidding style auction, then the rules are a little different. Sellers can request that the buyer pays towards the cost of returning the item, but only if that is made clear before the transaction takes place. If you buy as an individual from a business trading on eBay (or any other online marketplace for that matter), your sales are subject to either the Distance Selling Regulations 2000 or the Sale of Goods Act 1967. I don't know much about wheels and tyres, but I would question if the courier had caused the damage to these items, and I would question a seller who sells online and believes themselves exempt from DSR's! I would request a refund, perhaps paying for the return yourself (to meet the seller half-way), rather than taking the hit for the repair! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GTsillycar Posted March 1, 2013 Report Share Posted March 1, 2013 I've heard some horror stories about couriers causing damage but to dent 2 wheel rims is gonna take some force. If i were you i'd contact ebay and inform them of the situation and sellers offer. I wouldn't be happy with any less than all repair costs or a full refund. Don't fancy your chances of getting return postage covered though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freddie0 Posted March 1, 2013 Author Report Share Posted March 1, 2013 It was a Buy it Now sale, and the seller is a trader. The specialist who quoted for repair was dubious on the courier damaging the wheels as he said it would take considerable force, and if the outer rim of the bottom wheel was bent then why not the inner rim of the wheel that was strapped on top of it? I see his point, and it would make sense. Whilst I understand the sellers point about the fitting kit being supplied for my car, what point is a fitting kit without wheels? So do you suggest I return the whole lot and ask for a full refund - but pay the return postage/courier - then maybe complain to Ebay to try and push for these fees? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GTsillycar Posted March 1, 2013 Report Share Posted March 1, 2013 Contact ebay support first they should be able to advise you on the best course of action Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freddie0 Posted March 1, 2013 Author Report Share Posted March 1, 2013 Any idea how long it takes for them to get back to you? He is wanting a response tomorrow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GTsillycar Posted March 1, 2013 Report Share Posted March 1, 2013 Tell him you we're not happy with his offer as this still leaves you out of pocket so have had to contact ebay support. It will take as long as it takes for ebay to contact you with advice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freddie0 Posted March 1, 2013 Author Report Share Posted March 1, 2013 My only concern is regarding Ebays policy that says: The Distance Selling Regulations do not give sellers a right to withhold money or offer partial refunds. However, the buyer is legally required to take reasonable care of the item. If you find that the buyer has not done this, you may be able to enforce your legal right in court He could claim that the boxes weren't checked properly when delivered, but signed for therefore I am liable in that way? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kev 16v Posted March 1, 2013 Report Share Posted March 1, 2013 My only concern is regarding Ebays policy that says: The Distance Selling Regulations do not give sellers a right to withhold money or offer partial refunds. However, the buyer is legally required to take reasonable care of the item. If you find that the buyer has not done this, you may be able to enforce your legal right in court He could claim that the boxes weren't checked properly when delivered, but signed for therefore I am liable in that way? One step at a time, freddie. Just explain the whole circumstances to eBay first Are you aware that diamond cut finishes and our damp climate is not a good combination?. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lex_GTS Posted March 1, 2013 Report Share Posted March 1, 2013 Generally when items are delivered and sign for most couriers allow a few days to be contacted with regards to damage. Only exception I've ever come across was TNT. However that was with one particular company. Distance selling regulations entitle you to a full refund of the goods and carriage. If all else fails raise it on eBay and it will put his account on stop. But you're well within your rights. Explain to eBay that there was no damage to the boxes consistent with the damage to the wheel and after speaking to a professional regarding a repair they advised its very unlikely this occurred in transit. He sent them, damage is his responsibility. Sounds like he didnt have the liability to cover the value so doesn't want to go down that route, but also sounds like he's tried to screw you over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freddie0 Posted March 1, 2013 Author Report Share Posted March 1, 2013 As they say - if it's too good to be true........... £150 for 4 Dotz Tupac alloys, nearly new............should have guessed really! Claim raised. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arizona Posted March 1, 2013 Report Share Posted March 1, 2013 'Explain to eBay that there was no damage to the boxes consistent with the damage to the wheel and after speaking to a professional regarding a repair they advised its very unlikely this occurred in transit' This, as said in above post. I think it highly unlikely this was done by courier. Tell seller you have had them checked and what the wheel refurb guy said and that you are contacting ebay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kev82 Posted March 2, 2013 Report Share Posted March 2, 2013 Any idea how long it takes for them to get back to you? He is wanting a response tomorrow Tell him that you are seeking advice from eBay and that he will get a response when you have one to give. eBay respond quite quickly, just give them as much detail as you possibly can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freddie0 Posted March 2, 2013 Author Report Share Posted March 2, 2013 I had nothing off him by email, then got this tonight via Ebay from the claim: 'a full refund is being offered once the wheels have been returned and i have checked them myself. you are liable for the return cost as you are responsible for signing for the delivery stating that item had been checked and was un damaged. i do not usually refund items and have been as helpful as possible but unfortunately some people seem to want more than they are entitled to. like i stated i will refund the full amount £190, once i have the item returned to myself. you have until friday 8th of march to return the item for a full refund. thanks and just to clarify i offered you help towards repair and two new replacement wheels and a refund over the phone so opening this case is quite pointless and a waste both our times considering this was caused by damage in transit by the courier that you did not check for before signing the paperwork, maybe this will make you learn to check things in future rather than getting other people to take in your deliveries.' What he hast put here is false. He did NOT offer two new replacement wheels as he stated they were too expensive at £110 each (total sale £190). The cost of repair was £50 per wheel plus £100 per wheel for re-finishing, at the cheapest it would have cost £150 up to £300, and he offered £50 towards repair. He offered only a £175 refund to me on return, not the full £190. On the courier signing issue. I have stated to him that my elderly disabled parents would have been unable to physically check the goods, even if they had been given the time. Had they checked the goods it is unlikely they would have noticed the damage themselves. I advised him that couriers are usually open to discussion on issues within a day or so providing there is sufficient insurance in place, and sufficient packaging - there was nothing in the boxes other than the rims, no bubble wrap or anything. I also stated that the wheel repair specialist queried how such force could be applied by a courier to cause such damage, and why only to the outer part of the rims? In addition to this I quoted Ebay regulations on DSR: The Consumer Protection (Distance Selling) Regulations 2000 generally apply to sales to consumers made by sellers acting in the course of a business, which have been made at a distance (in other words, where there's no face-to-face contact between the seller and the consumer before the contract is made). The Distance Selling Regulations apply to items purchased via Buy it now listings and Second Chance Offers on eBay.co.uk. However, they don't apply to auction-style listings on eBay.co.uk. These regulations provide a period of 7 working days after the date of receipt within which the consumer can cancel the contract (often referred to as the "cooling off" period) and get their money back, including the original postage and packing charges. The consumer may be asked to return the goods at their own expense, but only if the seller informed them of this requirement before the contract was made (otherwise, the seller is responsible for collecting the goods). So whilst he is now offering the full refund (though threatening a time limit for return), do I have to pay the courier costs for return or should it be collected and paid for by him? I do now have strong suspicions that the goods could well have not been damaged in transit but possibly the damage was present before the items left in the first place! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kev82 Posted March 3, 2013 Report Share Posted March 3, 2013 If he is now offering a full refund (and his reply was via the eBay case) then he will have to honour that. I would take any time limits he himself sets with a pinch of salt. As the DSR states 'The consumer may be asked to return the goods at their own expense, but only if the seller informed them of this requirement before the contract was made (otherwise, the seller is responsible for collecting the goods) Therefore if he stated before you bought the item that you the consumer would have to pay to return the goods yourself, then he should offer at least to cover the cost of return postage & packaging. However, it may be a good thing to meet him half-way and pay the return courier charges yourself - but only after you have received the full refund, or have him deduct the return postage from the total refund.. I am afraid he probably wont care about your parents, only so much so as that they never checked the condition of the items when they arrived - I mean seriously, how many couriers have people dealt with who actually have the time to wait while you check the goods they deliver?! Also, you'd think a business man would understand that people get busy and cannot always be in to accept their own deliveries.. What a stupid thing to say! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrianGT Posted March 3, 2013 Report Share Posted March 3, 2013 I know you have been hit but I wouldn't worry about the return postage......just get them back and claim the bulk of the purchase price. Sometimes, although justified, we can't always revert to a clear playing field. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freddie0 Posted March 3, 2013 Author Report Share Posted March 3, 2013 Couple of points. His ad only says 'no refunds' but this cannot count in the case if damaged goods anyway and he has no mention of seller having to pay any return postage. Also there was no packing at all in the boxes. Every courier company says there has to be bubble wrap or other suitable material therefore I doubt they would entertain any claim given this anyway. Almost as if it was packed this way for a reason?? As you say - this is a professional? You think I should just take the hit and pay the return then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cravo Posted March 3, 2013 Report Share Posted March 3, 2013 Well yea cos as you stated it is going to cost a hell of a lot more to repair them than return them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freddie0 Posted March 3, 2013 Author Report Share Posted March 3, 2013 Was thinking of calling his bluff on the placement offer. He previously dismissed it to me directly but through EBay he said he had offered to replace them? But then again, could I be bothered with the hassle or trust him to send the right wheels, right size, and not damaged etc.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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