myitshot Posted January 15, 2013 Report Share Posted January 15, 2013 right then boys and girls it may be a topic already covered but no idea how to go hunting through this forum for niche bits of info so i figured someone may know the answers to these futile questions now i appreciate that brake calipers are different but is it possible to fit gen 7 swing arms and hubs onto a gen 6 is the suspension interchangeable between the 2 generations can you fit a gen 7 swing arm to a gen 6 hub and visa versa and when it comes to hubs are there any differences between the gen 6 hubs when it comes to the 1.8l and 2.0l the 3sge and the afe and then between the gen 7 hubs between the 140 and the 190 and then as they got newer and went facelift etc any help on this would be amazing lastly what size discs are used on the gen 6 celicas between the ranges of 1.8 2.0 3sge and afe engined versions and same goes for the gen 7 versions as well oh and has anyone ever fitted either of the gt4 st165 or st185 hubs onto there celica? just wondering if the discs and calipers were better even though the cars are essentially older greatly appreciate the help and all will become clearer eventually Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ams Posted January 15, 2013 Report Share Posted January 15, 2013 I doubt its straight bolt on, even if it fits Id be shocked if it aligned up ok. Maybe a bit more info on what you are trying to achieve? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Briano Posted January 15, 2013 Report Share Posted January 15, 2013 nix managed to fit gen 6 superstrut to a gen 7, we have since found out they are slightly different but there didn't seem to be any alignment issues. calliper wise the gen 6 GT is about your best bet for going backwards to a gen 4 as its 277 disks and you can fit twinpot calliper to those Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ams Posted January 15, 2013 Report Share Posted January 15, 2013 nix managed to fit gen 6 superstrut to a gen 7, we have since found out they are slightly different but there didn't seem to be any alignment issues. Think he only used the fig8 though and maybe the lower arm, would be surprised if the 7 wishbones fitted a 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Briano Posted January 15, 2013 Report Share Posted January 15, 2013 Think he only used the fig8 though and maybe the lower arm, would be surprised if the 7 wishbones fitted a 6 yeah it was the lower arm and fig 8, the banana arm is a lot more different the wishbones wouldn't fit on the same priciple as the banana arm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
myitshot Posted January 15, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 15, 2013 so do the gen 7 celicas not run swing arms ? am i misguided with what ive been finding in the parts section on ebay for gen 6 none super strut and gen 7 none super strut the super strut is a £1500 optional extra imo but what im really really interested in finding out about is that many of toyota vehicles use front swing arms and so far ive found that images of the gen 7 and gen 6 celica's look identical so out of curiousity has anyone used either or on the wrong model so to speak and found they fit or does no-one experiment between the models to see what fits to maybe save themselves a few quid here and there and maybe buying a newer swing arm off a gen 7 to fit onto a gen 6 same going for the hubs and then suspension and calipers i just figured someone may have test fitted and found yep they fit which means great newer parts and possibly cheaper plus the added benifit that if buying new and toyota say oh im sorry sir or miss your car is no longer on the list you can say to them thats ok mrT il have the one off the gen7 celica instead as to my intentions its a case of knowing who i can buy certain items from such as front suspension how much work i need to do for brake conversions and to basically and hopefully provide folk with some upgrades with definative parts i see it this way super strut is expensive there are other toyotas out there so why not expand ones knowledge and modify for a better end to keep certain cars on the road with owning 2 165's and a couple of 205's then looking at later in life of the 185 then these have huge variations on the 162 182 and 202 and then theres the gen7 and between the variations some will of already experimented hence my question as to gen 7 super strut fitting onto the st205 the banana arm and 2nd arm are the wrong length and thinner as i understand it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ams Posted January 16, 2013 Report Share Posted January 16, 2013 gen6 suspension components should be around for a fair while longer, I can still get parts for my ta22 When you say swing arm - what do you mean - are you talking about on the rear? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Briano Posted January 16, 2013 Report Share Posted January 16, 2013 (edited) I have a gen 6 sitting with no wishbones on it although the hubs and struts are still in place, If someone wants to check im happy to test this so long as someone sends me some wishbones I also have a set of gen 6 wishbones at my lockup not on a car and can take some dimensions to compare Edited January 16, 2013 by Briano Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
myitshot Posted January 16, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 16, 2013 gen6 suspension components should be around for a fair while longer, I can still get parts for my ta22 When you say swing arm - what do you mean - are you talking about on the rear? front end so theyre either known as wishbones or swing arms seeing as they just sit there and swing around i called them swing arms but i can call them front wishbones if its easier for folk to understand seeing as the rears have link arms or rather tie bars its just what certain people understand thats all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ams Posted January 16, 2013 Report Share Posted January 16, 2013 I still cant see the value in this, gen7 brakes arent worth the effort of fitting to any other car and wishbones are so readily available for the 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Briano Posted January 16, 2013 Report Share Posted January 16, 2013 I still cant see the value in this, gen7 brakes arent worth the effort of fitting to any other car and wishbones are so readily available for the 6 only celica brakes that work are st205 the rest are made of cheese as Ams has said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
myitshot Posted January 16, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 16, 2013 I still cant see the value in this, gen7 brakes arent worth the effort of fitting to any other car and wishbones are so readily available for the 6 not interested in gen 6 or gen 7 brakes what i am interested in is simply do the gen 7 front wishbones and front hubs fit onto the gen 6 front end and match up can a gen 7 hub fit onto a gen 6 wishbone and still line up can a gen 6 hub fit onto a gen 7 wishbone and still line up does the suspension swap between the two other than the top mounts that is pretty much it tbh i see it this way if a gen 7 wishbone fits onto a gen 6 and lines up and i can buy it for £10 compared to paying £20 for the gen 6 wishbone then to me its info worth knowing same goes for the hubs as well its a bit like knowing that when replacing particular bushes on the rear hubs of the gt4's that you go order the supra ones because they are soooooooo much cheaper than getting the celica ones its also knowing that the rear subframes on an st205 fits onto an st185 and st165 which means you can have newer bushes and one that isnt rusted to death its like knowing a supra turbo fits a 165 that a turbo off an st205 fits an st 185 that the gearboxes are interchangeable between the 3 gt4's etc etc etc i mean has no-one tried fitting the 6 speed box off the gen7 onto a gen6 yet???? as to brakes thats a completely different story all together and not one i really need to be bothered about right now as any old brakes can be fitted to any old hub with an adapter plate i didnt think getting this info would be so difficult with so many celica owners on here but obviously it must be something no-one has even considered or even checked on when working on either generation of car only celica brakes that work are st205 the rest are made of cheese as Ams has said. depends on what your putting them on tbh they do suffer from corrosion though on the pistons so can be expensive to refurb and they do tend to sell at premium prices Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ams Posted January 17, 2013 Report Share Posted January 17, 2013 I don't think anyone will have tried it because it's not an issue yet and probably won't be for a fair few years. I can sell you a hub and wishbone if you want to be the first one to try. The brakes on the 6 and 7 are different mount points so you would need to change hubs and callipers so no money saving there. I'm pretty sure you can still get brand new non genuine gen6 wishbones probably as cheap as used gen7 ones so may be worth you buying a pair if your worried about them being obsolete. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Briano Posted January 17, 2013 Report Share Posted January 17, 2013 not interested in gen 6 or gen 7 brakes what i am interested in is simply do the gen 7 front wishbones and front hubs fit onto the gen 6 front end and match up can a gen 7 hub fit onto a gen 6 wishbone and still line up can a gen 6 hub fit onto a gen 7 wishbone and still line up does the suspension swap between the two other than the top mounts that is pretty much it tbh i see it this way if a gen 7 wishbone fits onto a gen 6 and lines up and i can buy it for £10 compared to paying £20 for the gen 6 wishbone then to me its info worth knowing same goes for the hubs as well its a bit like knowing that when replacing particular bushes on the rear hubs of the gt4's that you go order the supra ones because they are soooooooo much cheaper than getting the celica ones its also knowing that the rear subframes on an st205 fits onto an st185 and st165 which means you can have newer bushes and one that isnt rusted to death its like knowing a supra turbo fits a 165 that a turbo off an st205 fits an st 185 that the gearboxes are interchangeable between the 3 gt4's etc etc etc i mean has no-one tried fitting the 6 speed box off the gen7 onto a gen6 yet???? as to brakes thats a completely different story all together and not one i really need to be bothered about right now as any old brakes can be fitted to any old hub with an adapter plate i didnt think getting this info would be so difficult with so many celica owners on here but obviously it must be something no-one has even considered or even checked on when working on either generation of car depends on what your putting them on tbh they do suffer from corrosion though on the pistons so can be expensive to refurb and they do tend to sell at premium prices I do like your line of thought, I have looked into a lot of this kind of thing but gen 6 wishbones are so easy to come by that i haven't considered using any others I have looked at the 6 speed box next to a 3sge engine and it has the right amount of splines and the gearbox mounts in exactly the same place on a gen 6 but only 60% of the gearbox matches the block so would require a bit of clever engineering to make it fit. this was found out when me an another member where looking at the possibility of fitting 3sge engines to death rattle 140's as a bit of an upgrade I have also got the only mac to superstrut conversion on one of my gen 6 and learned a lot about what matches in the process Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
myitshot Posted January 17, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 17, 2013 I don't think anyone will have tried it because it's not an issue yet and probably won't be for a fair few years. I can sell you a hub and wishbone if you want to be the first one to try. The brakes on the 6 and 7 are different mount points so you would need to change hubs and callipers so no money saving there. I'm pretty sure you can still get brand new non genuine gen6 wishbones probably as cheap as used gen7 ones so may be worth you buying a pair if your worried about them being obsolete. well seeing as the parts wont be being fitted to a stock celica and its to alter and modify a celica so i can ascertain as to what does and doesnt fit then just going out and buying them to through them away is not my idea of fun seeing as they both run front sub frames which look remarkably similar seeing as both generations ran a super strut and a macphearson set up and seeing as if a manufacturer can save machine costs they will use certain parts i was hoping someone may of tried regardless of how readily available the parts are sometimes its nice to know through neccesity sometimes out of curious nature others because it can save a few quid i just find it a little negative to keep going why bother because you can still get these bits and those bits its a bit like your now aging celica what you going to do the day sorry sir/miss those parts are obsolete come from toyota and the what was a cheap second hand part turns into a premium and rare ? il wager if some owners of certain marques knew theyre parts would no longer be available the outcome would be different as an example audi quattro rear brake set up theres a particular part that simply disintegrates no longer available take the brake apart and it gets damaged then hey ho scrap the car or look into what would of fitted from a different model its a bit like one of my other posts for st165 engine mounts so far rocking horse poo seems easier to get hold of Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ams Posted January 18, 2013 Report Share Posted January 18, 2013 But you are talking about parts that are still available cheap and will be for a while. I've restored a ta22 so I understand your point about parts compatability. If you were talking about something like a rear subframe where the camber and toe bolts seize and it can be expensive to replace then I could understand. I know from my ta22 that sometimes fitting parts that almost fit end up costing more than fitting the correct parts to start with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
myitshot Posted January 18, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 18, 2013 But you are talking about parts that are still available cheap and will be for a while. I've restored a ta22 so I understand your point about parts compatability. If you were talking about something like a rear subframe where the camber and toe bolts seize and it can be expensive to replace then I could understand. I know from my ta22 that sometimes fitting parts that almost fit end up costing more than fitting the correct parts to start with. im also after them for another reason entirely hence the multiple questions lets for example say that yes the gen 7 wishbone fits to the gen 6 subframe but it pushes the hub out to far or it alters the caster to the front or rear or that it brings the hub in towards the car or for example a gen6 hub fits onto the gen7 wishbone but when connecting the suspension it causes positive camber or negative camber now for me this kind of info could be extremely handy to have especially if building a track car and id like to say get added camber for free or some extra caster for turn in heres an example for you the st205 rear subframe /diff /the chassis to hub tie arm and hubs will all fit onto the st165 and st185 but the subframe to hub tie arms and the drive shafts dont as they throw it out by a fair way without you do a bit of fabricating which in simple terms is by cutting the chassis to subframe tie arm and welding back together at an offset and then you re work the top hole of the suspension strut to keep alignment weld a washer in place for the new hole to give strength and away you go end result for a 165 can be as much as a 4inch wider track if you dont alter the strut that can be some serious rear camber not a bad bit of info if building a car eh so its back to my original point can a gen 7 wishbone fit onto a gen 6 do the hubs interchange does the suspension struts for the front inter change or if its possible would somebody please post up measurements of the fittings and bolt distances and il see whether they match my needed application Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ams Posted January 18, 2013 Report Share Posted January 18, 2013 Ok now I understand I'll try and measure one if I get time tomorrow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Briano Posted January 18, 2013 Report Share Posted January 18, 2013 Ok now I understand I'll try and measure one if I get time tomorrow. I will get some sizes from the gen 6 wishbones i have lying around. do you also need to know the hole spacing on the struts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
myitshot Posted January 19, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 19, 2013 Ok now I understand I'll try and measure one if I get time tomorrow. I will get some sizes from the gen 6 wishbones i have lying around. do you also need to know the hole spacing on the struts? many thanks and as much info as possible main bits for wishbones are the spacing between the fixings onto the subframe and then the length of the wishbone at a guess to then get the other info of where the end sits with the ball joint for the hub to sit on will be quite hard to ascertain without putting them ontop of each other to visually see the hole spacing on the hubs would be very handy for the suspension strut this would help to ascertain as to whether gen7 suspension can be fitted to gen 6 and visa versa but as to getting the info of if they create camber in a positive or negative could also be difficult without them being side by side id love to be sat with the 3 versions of gen 6 and gen 7 with macphearson and superstrut to just spend the day swapping stuff around to see what fits and lines up but i dont have the space the funds or the cars to have them all sat there something else that would be greatful to know is about the gen 6 hubs and gen 7 hubs in that are there any differences between the gen 6 whether its off a 1.8l or 2.0l version and the sge and afe engines same goes on the gen7's is there any differences between the 140bhp and 190 bhp versions or can they all just be swapped between the relevant generations without issue thanks in advance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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