question about tyres, uneven wear

[simonwref]

i parked up today but left it in full lock, and on leaving the car, i noticed that the inside of the tyres are badly worn, still legal i think.

anyways having a service next week, and will get them to do the tracking but was also wondering:

is it a good idea to swap fronts and rears.

i correct in thinkin that the fronts should wear more cos they are responsible for both drive and steering.

if i could prolong their life until august when mot is due and i can change all four corners thatd be great.

thanx in advance for your advice.

[sbdags]

I swap my fronts & rear every 6 months to even things up but yes fronts will wear faster than rears.

TBH it sounds like you need some new front tyres if the insides are badly worn. Don't risk it on worn tyres especially in the wet. I learnt the hard way ....

Get the rears moved to the front and put new tyres on the rear. And then have the tracking done - properly by a 4 wheel laser tracking machine. It'll cost you £50+ but it's definitely worth it.

[princy]

If th car's been lowered it'll wear the insides of the tyres a lot quicker too unless the camber has been corrected

[simonwref]

Thanx guys.

It's not lowered btw.

Can't afford tyres and tracking at this month. (but maybe can't afford not to!). Priority for next month!

[princy]

Worn/softened bushes can also cause it too, ask them to check for any play in the bushes when they do your tracking

[izzzzythedog]

wear just down the middle = over inflated tyre

wear just down the outer edges of the tyre = under inflated tyre

wear to either outer or inner edge only = a host of things be it wishbones to caster camber angles to ball joint to loads of things , either way if you have an inner or outer edge with excellerated wear then its worth getting the car checked out , as has been said if you lower a car due to the angle of the suspension being changed the wheels splay out creating premature tyre wear

[cait]

If th car's been lowered it'll wear the insides of the tyres a lot quicker too unless the camber has been corrected

got to get this explained to me or 'shown in a diagram' if its not TOO technical

so I can understand this .... the camber bit ...At least I I am willing to learn

[izzzzythedog]

got to get this explained to me or 'shown in a diagram' if its not TOO technical

so I can understand this .... the camber bit ...At least I I am willing to learn

imagine a wheel on a car , now imagine your sat on the floor at the front of the car looking along the wheels , the wheel sits at 90% to the floor , ok so far , now caster/camber is the amount of degrees off of 90% perpendicular to the floor , so as you look at the wheel imagine a line running through it and lets call it the 12 o clock position , now when a car has toe in the wheel at the top leans in towards the inner wheel arch so say the 11 o clock position , toe out is the reverse of this with the wheel now in the 1 o clock , all cars are given a degree of toe in

now when you lower a car ,,,,,,, the wheel is on a wishbone , the wishbone attaches to the hub which the wheel attaches to , the bottom of the suspension is also attached at roughly this point , the car is built to have suspension legs of a length so the car has a certain stance to it , once you sit in you take up whats known as the sag of the suspension travel , this is a set size and there is a given amount on where the car is sold , however once moving you go over bumps or place load on the suspenion by cournering , the suspension compresses shortening the suspension leg which in turn alters the angle of the wheel to the 11 o clock position , due to centrifugal forces the tyre will deform creating a good size footprint on the floor and heres the kicker , when you lower a car you shorten the suspension leg and therefore give the wheel the same angle ( 11 o clock ) as it would get under cournering , however because the tyres not under load the tyre will only sit on the edge of the inner rubber and not accross the entire footprint , this means you get excellerated tyre wear , loads of wheel spin and the inability to friggin stop , once the caster is adjusted then the car will handle beautifully but untill then someones made their car worse

hope that explains it

[Slugster]

Basic camber diagram. Hope it helps.

[stevenc1603]

This could open a can of worms but, I thought the general consensus was to have your best (least worn) tyres on the rear.

I certainly read a poster to this effect in my local garage and I'm sure that we have had this argument on here before now...

[Morten_Harket]

I always thought that the rears should have the least worn tread as on the front the weight of the engine will hold the car down and when water is displaced from the front to the back wheels that more tread should be present at the back to disperse the water?

[rpsmith79]

Nooooooooooooooo, not again

Yes there are theories that you should have the most grip on the rears, but then there are others who say to have the most grip on the front, i personally would rather have the grip where all the action happens.................. at the front

[Alan Clogwyn]

The arguement for having the most tread on the rear is you can feel the front ofthe car misbehave and drive sensibly as a result, on the rear you don't notice/care and forget and have an accident.

Of course it means nothing if all four tyres are different makes, as you will have completely different grip levels under differing conditions at each corner.

[mook]

izzzzythedog > You've not quite got your terms right in the explaination given. Camber is the one that affects wear on inner/outer edges as per the diagram Slugster posted up. Toe in/out is the angle of the wheel in relation to the front/rear of the car. Caster is the angle of the suspension arm movement in relation to the wheel. Front wheels generally have the top of the suspension mount angled back a little, this is what makes the front wheel go to straight ahead when you let go of the steering wheel - most commonly noticed when you let the wheels come back to centre after a left or right turn.

Basicly a wheel has angles in three dimentions - up/down, left/right, front/rear. Up/down is your camber, left/right is yout toe angle, front/rear is your castor.

The rest of the explaination as to inner tyre wear is pretty much fine, and is one reason why double wishbone suspension is superior as it keeps the same camber angle all the time

Simonwref > If you're short of funds then get the geometry set up first. Stick your fronts on the rear and the rears on the front, then you can even out the wear and replace all four at the same time as mentioned. As sbdags says it's worth rotating fronts/rears on a regular basis to keep wear more even throughout the tyres life, there are some tyres out there now with 'double' wear indicators so you can see when it's best to rotate them

[izzzzythedog]

cait asked for a simple version so i generalised rather alot hence throwing all terminology i thought she would come across , next i intend to enter the murky world of unsprung weight

tyre thing , good tyres to the front or the back ? to me its this simple , if you drive hard enough that the rear tyres need to have the best rubber on them so it doesnt oversteer you into the curb then its more than likely your gunna stick it into the car in front anyway due to having shit rubber on the front ,,,,, the experiments shown are bollocks bullshit balls and just deceptive wank , they offer ONE circumstance and thats excessive cournering speed under wet conditions at which having the better rubber on the arse end is benificial , however this will happly give you lesser braking and steering abilitys which are IMO much much more important , so as you aquaplane like fook or bang into the car in front when you cant stop on the wet roads then thank vicky butler henderson for her ability to pass on daft infomation

much better advise is to check your tyres regulally and replace when needed , check the pressures offen , and dont be a tight bastard using cheap shitty rubber , lash a few quid on quality tyres

[simonwref]

uh-oh, spagettio! cant beleive ive inadvertantly started the front-rear argument again (third time for me! !)

thanx for the replies and advice guys.

[rpsmith79]

tyre thing , good tyres to the front or the back ? to me its this simple , if you drive hard enough that the rear tyres need to have the best rubber on them so it doesnt oversteer you into the curb then its more than likely your gunna stick it into the car in front anyway due to having shit rubber on the front ,,,,, the experiments shown are bollocks bullshit balls and just deceptive wank , they offer ONE circumstance and thats excessive cournering speed under wet conditions at which having the better rubber on the arse end is benificial , however this will happly give you lesser braking and steering abilitys which are IMO much much more important , so as you aquaplane like fook or bang into the car in front when you cant stop on the wet roads then thank vicky butler henderson for her ability to pass on daft infomation

much better advise is to check your tyres regulally and replace when needed , check the pressures offen , and dont be a tight bastard using cheap shitty rubber , lash a few quid on quality tyres

Couldn't have put it better myself

[simonwref]

much better advise is to check your tyres regulally and replace when needed , check the pressures offen , and dont be a tight bastard using cheap shitty rubber , lash a few quid on quality tyres

i hear ya, no more maxxis for me!

but if i can just make em last til august, i get quality boots on all 4 corners then.

[rpsmith79]

I was going to say, you haven't had them that long have you Simon

[Zuban]

to much camber will wear the tyres out for sure, but not nearly as quick as too much toe in/out, look at the surface of the tyre and if it looks scrubbed, like a lighter surface colour and an obvious scrubbed pattern over it ( best description i can think of lol), then misalignment rather than too much camber is the cause.