Dtracer
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Posts posted by Dtracer
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16 minutes ago, ESTHAR_CITY said:
Well I feel thick as shit, I think I understand about two sentences in that lot...but good stuff
To be completely honest I have the overview and understand perhaps 50% of what went into producing these. It is so specialist I would have no chance of producing them myself. Really all I did was produce the briefs, set the parameters and co-ordinate the process. The clever stuff was done by others.
I'm just excited to have brought something new to the 2ZZ. Even if they are garbage I learned a lot - perhaps in the end all I will have learned is not to have done it in the first place haha. But I hope not.
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First glimpse
Some seriously extreme durations happening here. Not that you can tell a lot from the pictures, this is the inlet cam.
Of course it wont disclose the full detail on specs but for information and reference I have included some basics here. Not easy to see but as you can imagine the low lobe had relatively little design time put into it, the final brief for the low lobe was make the car easy to start and idle, that was it. All the fun should happen up top on these, it will necessitate a relatively low cam switch over due to the 9mm limit on the low lobe (still 1.75mm higher than standard) as it becomes flow limited at 5k rpm. Lift on the intake high lift lobe is as far as you can go with the best valve springs before you have to get into head relief machining, this is what ultimately limited the whole design. Flow past the valve over 12.5mm flattens out in any event and the exhaust lift was calculated to match the intake properties. Durations on the high lift lobe are extreme to say the least and as said the low cam runs out of go about 5k rpm, We are expecting to see a dip in power in this rpm range, these cams are tuned to work from 6000rpm upwards.
As with any design issue you have a set of fixed parameters that govern the outcome, its just a case of choosing the least compromised solution to your particular issue. This is why these may be the best 'compromise' for a NA screamer in a race car but would be completely useless for someone looking for a road going solution.
Calculation and simulation only get you so far however and the next step is to see if they actually fit in a head (you laugh but it only take a small mistake in the design and they wont actually fit) then onto getting it started and then onto live dyno testing.
In case anyone has ideas on this happening in a hurry I am sorry to disappoint but it will be the new year before I have chance to get these anywhere near an engine. Have to sit tight and wait and see...
Had a couple of people ask why they are called P157. It came from the University as it goes, Prototype no.157. We ran in excess of 1000 permutations of the design. Turned out Prototype run 157 was the winner. The process started with a 'best calculated guess' at what would be the ideal solution then a strategy to run a set of designs either side of this expanding to given outer parameters to ensure we didn't miss some crazy off the wall solution.
Intake
Exhaust
Low
High
Low
High
Duration at 0.1mm
288o
342o
288o
338o
Valve Lift
9mm
12.5mm
9mm
11.75mm
Lobe Angle
Timing at 1mm
Valve lift at TDC
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Things have moved faster than expected, cams are out for delivery today. Will grab some pics when they arrive.
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4 hours ago, Bumblebee said:
Good luck and fingers crossed.
I guess if these work you will be designing cams for the fi peeps
I'm not sure if my pockets are deep enough for another design process. I knew it would be be expensive to go through this process but it all got out of hand really. I had gone so far, had gotten in quite deep financially but the costs kept coming, I was close to binning it but then I would have completely wasted the money and had nothing to show for it. I can see why no-one but the big players can do this, its a big investment. I had a lot of free help along the way from old colleagues still in the biz who ran some of the more specific design verification works like the FEA on the standard rocker arms to make sure they could take the forces I will be throwing at them. ANYWAY...
FI cams.... its doubtful sorry, its just to big an investment and there is no market for them in reality, I would have to sell hundreds of sets to break even. Likely no-one would buy them
Its such a big outlay with a substantial risk of getting it wrong. I'll never say never but for now I'm still getting over the trauma of this process
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Interesting news. As those of you who follow the MSDT updates page will already know I have been working with a well known motorsport university in conjunction with a low volume specialist cam designer/producer on development of a specific circuit race cam for the NA 2ZZ.
WE HAVE FINISHED and had the design freeze on them about 2 months ago with verification that the cam producer had blanks that could be used to make them coming last week.
The first set will be ground in the next 2 weeks I have just been informed meaning I should have them within a month.
Now this announcement is a bit of a gamble but a bit like a video blog I tend to want to live the experience with others so win or lose you all know how it’s going. Just so you all know I’m not going to be doing a video blog, no one wants me in front of a camera...
So we will all find out If they are shit (or not) together. It’s taken coming up to 9 months to get to design freeze with some serious brain power and smart bods, some very close collaboration with a great group of people who share our enthusiasm for cars, motorsport and engines. There is no guarantee of success here, if you think that the likes of Piper, MWR and others with their combined experience, commercial backing etc couldn’t get it right perhaps it presumptuous of little old me to think I can do better. But hey... why not try.
Of course I’ll be gutted if it’s a failure as it’s taken a lot of work and money to get to this point but it’s always a possibility.
MSDT will have sole ownership of the design, I have NDA’s In place and IP protection on the design for 5 years. I can produce and make these freely. Of course they are likely only of use to erm... me. Likely they would only be of interest to those building an NA screamer and chasing peak power numbers. Let’s be honest no-one is doing this as it makes no sense, I’m just strange like that.
Watch this thread for more info as it comes.
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2 hours ago, Spaff said:
Great work! Footage was great, passing cars many people would consider to be better or faster, doing us proud
There is a certain pleasure in passing a few year old 50k GBP Renault sport built Clio Cup car in a near 20 year old car.
I think this is why we garner so much attention from the race officials and championship organisers. The Celica never had that cult 'Honda Civic' type following and remains a hugely under rated platform by the vast majority of people (especially 'Car People'). When they see what they perceive to be an inferior race car ploughing through a field of purpose built race cars, Porsche's, BMW's etc all worth 5-10 times that of the Celica it draws attention.
Little do they know the Celica is just a damn fine car with a cracking chassis. But of course WE as the CCUK collective all know that...
Did anyone notice who was driving the G&M Motors Honda Civic FN2. Only Mike Bushell British Touring car driver... Yeah been there, beat him hahahahhaahahaha
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Couple of the low res shots from Brands
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Brands video uploaded to previous post... For those with a stomach for 45 mins of onboard.
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The round up... went well, still issues
It was always going to be a tough weekend, Matt (the other half of MSDT and my driver coach) couldn't attend due to a house move so would be a Solo drive, preparations felt somewhat rushed, I hadnt raced or been to brands Indy for well over a year , and no pre-race test, I felt somewhat on the back foot. BUT I was still very much looking forward to it, the last opportunity of the year to race and I wanted it to go well.
Lee and the Se7en team had arrived and setup on the Friday, Sarah had been running on the pre-race test day so was in tune with the track already. Stewart was running the third Celica also out of the se7en stable.
We arrived very early Saturday morning, quick setup, final car prep, drivers briefing and then watched the first 2 quali sessions to see how the track was looking. The track was wet but drying, tyre selection was looking borderline, I opted to go aggressive expecting the track to continue to dry and went with the brand new Direzza.
Sketchy, was the word most suited to the first 6 or so laps of the 30 minute Quali, generally I set the car up to be marginally loose on the rear when everything is up to temp, soooo on a damp track the rear had no intention of following the front and generating heat in the rears was taking plenty of time. In reality I was rusty and I was struggling to find my lines in the damp conditions, it appeared however that despite what I thought to be a pretty poor qualifying that I was at least somewhere near the pace. I ran many more laps than I usually would in quali just for seat time and to get myself up to speed, the track was constantly improving and I knew the best times would come at the end of the session. I pitted with 10 mins or so to go to calm myself down, get my head around my lap and give it a last chance to hit my best. It worked, I netted a 55.383 lap, a tenth up on our pole time from Brands over a year earlier (55.473) but still only good enough for P3 in class and 4th overall (excluding the Guest cars which were way overpowered to fit any of the TDT Classes). Stewart had qualified along side me on the class C Celica only 7 tenths behind.
Through the day the track continued to evolve with every race and as such I was looking forward to a dry race.
P7 on the grid afforded me a nice flat piece of track on the inside line, not ideal for traction and it has a camber to the right but set you up nicely for Paddock (turn 1). I made a decent start not loosing any places, then it was a case of taking a big brave pill and taking the opening laps as quickly as possible with a very loose back end until the rears came up to temperature. I held position for the first few laps starting to push as the tyres came on. By lap three I was in a position to start attacking. I was really feeling the car, it right on the money, i was dialling into the track, the lines were coming naturally and my lap times were dropping lap on lap quickly overhauling my best from Quali eventually making a 7 tenths improvement leaving me only 3 tenths off fastest lap. I picked of the cars ahead of me in some great scraps, it was safe to say I was enjoying myself.
Pit open window opens but I have good track position and my times are good, I stick it out looking for a safety car or similar under which to pit but it never came, I come across a big group of back markers so make my stop, 25 mins left of the clock. The next stint was quite frenzied, never really directly battling anyone but keeping times as low as possible through traffic is half the challenge on a short track with a lot of cars. I ran it into the line to finish P2 overall (excluding guests). I was done. Very happy to finally complete a race this season and in a podium position. I think had I have run the test day I could have challenged for the win, I would have been stronger in quali and running the lower lap times straight up in the race but as circumstances were I was P2 fair and square and happy with it to.
We still have some sort of fume issue but not so intense. Will be into full winter strip down mode on my return from Japan so I'll find it. She'll likely be getting full new fuel system inc. custom fuel tank, hopefully a set of the MSDT full race cams (still to be completed) and perhaps a new MSDT developed head. But these are subject to finances being in place to support it. Also as she's now quite an old timer she needs new harnesses (out of date but perfect condition) and a fire extinguisher service.
Bring on the winter.
Video now uploaded to the channel here:
Still in low res until it’s processed up to 1080 HD by YouTube. Enjoy
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No time just now so will just leave these here. Great day
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6 hours ago, alwayzsidewayz said:
Arh "push to pass BTCC" Lol
Good idea though, Like it
Rear exhaust, well if it does the job!
Fingers crossed for you guys, where are you racing this weekend?
FUNCTION OVER FORM... initially. Hoping to make it less ‘falic’ if it works.
Brands hatch, last round. Hoping I can compete it without giving myself carbon monoxide poisoning.
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So nearly time to race again. Last round of the year. Fingers crossed for this one.
Going all out to try and solve our mystery fume problem as I’ve described. Somewhat unfortunate is that in doing so we’ve added a limp man appendage to the rear of the car, it’s actually funny as h£ll haha.
But if it does the job...
Other than that we’ve added a BTCC spec front ‘nudge’ bar that bolts directly to the front of the chassis legs and is doubling as the splitter and front end support. I came to the realisation that perhaps at some point there may be a car ahead of me and I should protect the radiator and oil cooler.
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On 05/11/2019 at 00:41, jim7564 said:
it can be strange at times,not sure about car engines etc but with marine engines,a lot of times its down to new lagging on exhausts/silencers etc,new lagging can produce fumes/smoke etc for a few hours before it settles,seen this on a number of occasions,thats only a possibility
leaking fuel anywhere if only a drip causes a lot of fumes even just enough to evaporate on the engine,
like you say a bootseal may be all it needs,
hopefully you will find it,driving on a track you wont have time to even glance in the hope of seeing anything,
on a positive note the car looks awesome with that rear diffuser,you notice much improvement
good luck
I hope we find it to, i will certainly look into any fuel type leaks thanks for the suggestion, its definitely has the smell (and taste) of some sort of combusted element just not sure how its getting into the cab or whats causing it.
The biggest improvement has come from the front splitter in all honestly, the combination of that and the new rear really saw an improvement, I knew we couldnt balance the aero perfectly so it did take a few laps to understand how things felt. In anticipation I stiffened the front slightly, slight increase in front spring preload and bump damping but that was a mistake and knew it after lap 2, low speed understeer (mechanical) grip suffered so returned it to standard (for Silverstone) settings and went again, front end was back but now the rear felt a little floaty in the quick stuff like it couldnt keep up with the sharp and direct front end, just a smidge of lag in it that was unsettling. Lowered the rear ride height a couple of mm to give it a little extra static weight on the rear axle and boom, back to that lovely adjustable neutral celica poise... Couldnt gauge exactly what magnitude performance gain we've made as we have never run the GP before the Birkett, the GP and National circuits only share a few common corners and conditions we very different but I can say with out a doubt its a there is a tangible improvement and well worth the weight penalty.
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55 minutes ago, ESTHAR_CITY said:
Any news on the mystery exhaust leak?
Well we know we dont have a leak but something is still a miss, in with Mike on the 6th for extension/downturn to be added. Boot seal hopefully arriving this week.
Also going to remove the charcoal canister system from the fuel system to see if that does anything...grasping at straws but if we keep ruling things out then eventually we must hit it. Frustrating...
Only have until the 16th to sort it. Tight time lines as always
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Maaaaaad. Haha love it
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What would be miraculous and cool would be if we actually have your shell. Yep your car is our car... Brilliant!!!
#0548 - Lagoon Blue - alwayzsidewayz , then Se7en Motorsports Race Car, now owned by Corp guys MSDT Race Developments. (Dtracer)
It had one outing with Lee at Rockingham after it was built then we bought it from him and rebuilt it to turn it into what she is today. Mega
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It was a great day all the same, so easy to understate just what it takes to complete a 6hr endurance, we learnt a lot and it already appears plans for next year are coming on.
Next steps for MSDT
- Car to APFab for a downturn exhaust to be welded on
- Get a carbon monoxide sniffer and scope out where we have leaks (if any) or at least find the source
- Check, re-route and seal the crank case and rocker cover breathers/catch can hoses
- Refit a boot lid seal
- seal the rear floor area
- Procure a heated element front windscreen (Bumblebee has a group buy on for anyone interested)
- Go testing prior to Brands on the 16th Nov to make sure we can breath in the car
- Make plans for full FIA spec endurance fuel tank.... maybe
Fun and games.
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No u fortunately not, that would be Lee. His car is similar scheme but with orange rather than red but it looks similar, especially in the dull rain soaked environment that was Silverstone today.
Was really great to have so many CCUK members turn up, really lend an invaluable hand in our effort, so bit thanks to you all chaps, great to finally meet you.
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27th on the road after 6hrs
i’ll call that a win.
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Upto P18 out of 70.
Lets hope we can stay there
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From an anticipated high to a very deep low... Motorsport is the ultimate pleasure/ pain roller coaster
Day started well, everything came together nicely in the end. But we had an odd amount of fumes coming into the cabin, anyway we stuck it out, serious rain and wet all day but we were flying, nothing apart from the TFsport Aston, the works Porsche and the radicals could match us, that included race prepped caymans, caterhams and most happily for me the Civics.
Had a swap of driver, Mike jumped in and really enjoyed the car but came in after 6 laps with his eyes streaming. The fumes has not abated And seemed to build up on you. After those first stints we couldn’t manage more than 3 laps at a time without suffering serious eye burn.
Enough was enough, we pulled the entire exhaust off, inc. manifold to make sure it wasn’t leaking at the gasket, couldnt see anything, no cracks in the main, exhaust anything that would indicate and used so gummed it all up re-assembled and went for another run... same same. Damn. We were losing track time but also couldn’t risk breathing exhaust fumes.
The whole team we at it trying to work it out, we had a short extension piece made thinking perhaps it was blowing inside the bumper and circling back in, we drilled holes in the rear screen to let air flow through the car,... no differance. We ran without the diffuser even without the rear bumper... No differance.
So we are at a loss and with no quick way to solve it we are out of the Birkett, I could risk my team mate nor my health and safety for the sake of a race.
The only remote chance is that even with the stubby it re-circulating off the back of car and as we don’t have a boot seal it’s getting in that way. We just don’t know. Also pondered potential ‘stand off’ in the intake but it just doesn’t feel, small or taste like I burned fuel, it’s nasty and given you a big damned headache.
So one car, 2 drivers out. 3 cars 4 drivers remain. Depressing for me but we still have a team out there for the CCUK collective to cheer for.
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Well that’s it, all out of time the car is as ready as it can be. Very happy with the outcome of my prototype rear diffuser to...
All ready and setup for Silverstone GP test day tomorrow and then straight into the Birkett.
Who ever said the Gen 7 was a hairdressers car never saw this coming.
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41 minutes ago, alwayzsidewayz said:
So looking forward to seeing how you guys get on.
My lad can race tin tops from 14, so I am hoping that I can get him out in a track prepared Celica then too.
Will be following you guys as close as I can.
He would be very welcome to test one of ours, next year will see the second car complete and available for trackday/test day rental, we also have in house driver training/coaching from one of the UK/international leading junior level tutors which is another option to take should you wish it. Be great to provide such a service.
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MSDT P157 Race Camshafts
in MSDT 01/09/2021
Posted
It appears I have an issue with patience and waiting until January to have a go at these cams just wasn’t sitting well, what have I managed, 3 days before I got itchy?
I gave an old friend of mine at Matt Bentley Racing (Lotus specialist) a call to see If they have any space to fit me in before Christmas, as luck would have it they had so this morning #105 was dropped off for the prototype cam fit.
Right now I wish there was a finger nail biting emoji to add to the post. First stop will be to see if they actually fit. fingers crossed