_Chris_ Posted January 22, 2013 Report Share Posted January 22, 2013 Following a discussion at a DC curry meet recently, I'm looking at the feasability of developing a digital dash as a replacement for the standard instrument cluster. (I'm an electronic/software design engineer) The prime advantage as I see it is that it will monitor the engine sensors and provide a warning if anything goes wrong. The saves the driver from constantly monitoring gauges, or more likely it will wake the driver from autopilot as soon as something starts going wrong rather than when the engine starts coughing and spluttering making the driver look down to see what's just caused the destruction. It will also be able to take additional sensors to provide extra warnings. e.g. for us turbo users, we can fit a wideband sensor and program it to warn us if it goes weak on boost. Proposed spec: Mechanical: it will srew on the back of the existing trim in place of the standard circuit board / dial background. One colour graphic LCD display (probably widescreen) as big as will fit. Maybe one or 2 small displays filling in the wasted space for extra info display, possibly large size text only. Trim front over the display(s) to make it look good, possibly supplied by Mook. It will have OEM connectors so will be direct plug & play on all existing sensors. Extra connector or 2 for additional sensors. Extra connector(s) for canbus / obd2 / usb to link to PC for configuration / logging. There will be versions available for each car covered (probably be gen 6 & gen 7, depending on interest) Functional spec. Graphical dials on the main screen for speed / tacho, plus inset text for accurate readout. Poosibly one or 2 extra small dials for other display, e.g. temperature, boost, fuel. (user configurable setup so all required information is dispayed). Text display on the small screens for less critical information / and or alarm / warning / error display. The system will monitor all inputs against configurable limits and provide an alarm if something goes out of limits, this will include the ability to gate several inputs together to avoid false alarms (e.g. ignore low voltage below 1500 RPM) Several levels of alarm selectable (from non urgent which will just be a text alart, to critical (e.g. low oil pressure) which can provide audible alert and flash the screen. Relay output for critical alarm which can be used to cut ignition or just for a big dash top lamp. Display will automatically switch to show an input in 'alarm state' so the driver can monitor it. May include a G sensor to allow horsepower calculation. It may include a logging facility, maybe storing just alarm information, maybe allow storage of full logging data for short periods for download to a laptop. Price. Finger in air, probably looking at £300 - £500 (likely upper end of this range) What are peoples thoughts ? Any ideas for extra functions ? which functions would be of interest to you ? I know there are other 'off-the-shelf' systems out there for digital dashes, but I'm not aware of anything that's plug & play to exactly fit in place of the standard dials and look like it's meant to be there. If you post, please let me know which version celica you have. I'm expecting most interest from the Gen 7 folks, in which case I'd need a guinea pig in the Central South. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkey_matt Posted January 22, 2013 Report Share Posted January 22, 2013 Similar to this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_Chris_ Posted January 22, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 22, 2013 Along those lines, but I'm not looking at touch screen as, firstly it will be behind the stock glass (plastic) front, secondly it will be behind the steering wheel so not very safe to stick hands through the wheel to operate, thirdly touch screen and motion don't go together very well unless you make the buttons very big. It's also going to be plug & play so anyone who can undo a dozen screws can fit it themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devious Posted January 22, 2013 Report Share Posted January 22, 2013 Could be interesting I think you may struggle with us older cars but maybe not. 300 seems a lot but it would be uber cool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_Chris_ Posted January 22, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 22, 2013 (edited) I probably wouldn't do a gen. specific version for the older ones unless there was enough interest, as each version of the PCB is subject to a tooling charge and minimum quantity to be viable. (1 costs as much as 10). If the earlier gen's are similar enough size & shape to a later one, it may be possible to accomodate them at the time of laying out the PCB for a later gen. I haven't looked at this side of it yet as it may be possible to accomodate all gen's in one PCB version. The most expensive part is going to be the display, and probably the front panel graphics. I'm largely waiting to see what sort of comments I get on here as to whether I aim for cheap & cheerful or go a bit upmarket - i.e. are people prepared to pay a bit more for a larger display, extra side displays to avoid the main display getting too cluttered, nice looking graphics. Edited January 22, 2013 by _Chris_ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devious Posted January 22, 2013 Report Share Posted January 22, 2013 I think it'll look good. Digital displays but keeping the original look would be awesome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_Chris_ Posted January 22, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 22, 2013 Another suggestion that's been made on another forum is to just produce a box of tricks to give OBD2 output for the older gen's by splicing into the sensors on the car. This will then allow the user to run a cheap bluetooth adaptor & torque or a similar app. and avoid any potential legal issues with removing the standard odometer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_Chris_ Posted January 22, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 22, 2013 (edited) And another suggestion, is a din sized unit to go in the centre console to provide more of an engine monitor / warning system. I've been running a similar system in my 185 for about 5 years which is an adaptation of a standard product I manufacture for other applications so not DIN sized. It would be easy to re-develop / re-package into a DIN size box with custom interfaces for automotive sensors. http://www.cdd.co.uk/monitor.htm http://www.javelinir...DSM_monitor.htm Would people be interested in this idea ? Likely cost would be about £250 - £300 and could be on the market fairly quickly as there's already a working and thoroughly tested prototype Edited January 22, 2013 by _Chris_ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devious Posted January 22, 2013 Report Share Posted January 22, 2013 I think so and of you can multiplatform it you'd be onto a winner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wide boy Posted January 22, 2013 Report Share Posted January 22, 2013 If this comes to play id be interested when they r on sale Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_Chris_ Posted January 22, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 22, 2013 If this comes to play id be interested when they r on sale Which version / what features would be of interest ? i.e. replacement dash, OBD box, din case engine monitor ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wide boy Posted January 22, 2013 Report Share Posted January 22, 2013 I have obd already but having it in the dash would be awesome. Id be after gen7 dials would u do a selection of colours? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlybyWyre Posted January 22, 2013 Report Share Posted January 22, 2013 Torque Pro on Android with an OBD II Bluetooth takes a lot of beating. I know all the tech comes from the smartphone but you couldn't hope to provide HP, G force, GPS speed, altitude,acceleration, fuel consumption, water/oil temps and a host of other things without spending huge amounts of money. You need to check Torque Pro with the OBD II adapter before you go further. As you can't use a phone in the car then I suppose it is redundant (as a phone). If you transmit the data from the smartphone to a custom LCD display you would have something that makes a GTR dash look old world. Just a thought, and people don't like techy boxes! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Briano Posted January 22, 2013 Report Share Posted January 22, 2013 I like the idea of this, especially as i dont like the hunners of dials that some people crave I think john has a digital dash (motec) for his GT4 build, so the specs of that may be a good starting point from a readout and display point of view Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_Chris_ Posted January 22, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 22, 2013 (edited) I have run torque (not pro so far) on my clio with bluetooth / htc phone and agree it takes some beating as an 'add-on dash' system. I would say there's no real market for Gen 7 / other modern cars for an add-on / side box for engine monitoring / performance measuring. i would personally not consider removing the OEM dashboard and replace with an item that relies on operation of a nearby mobile phone / bluetooth. It should be self contained so any driver can get in, having been robbed of all their posessions, and drive the car with full readout of speed, distance etc. I believe this is also a legal requirement. From discussions here & on the DC so far, it looks likely that the first offering will be a generic monitor / display / warning in a din case designed to fit in a roughly stereo size hole. Many people remove the standard double din stereo and relace with an aftermarket single one and are looking for something to fill the hole anyway. This can be on the market within a couple of months as most of the work is already done. I'll continue to look at the feasability of the original idea of a replacement dash, as I think it should appeal to many who want something a bit modern & flashy. Edited January 22, 2013 by _Chris_ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_Chris_ Posted January 23, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 23, 2013 As a bump for more opinions, I'll just recap. Looks like very little interest in a dash replacement option. I'm surprised as this had the potential of a really good looking, very functional system, definately a WOW factor at a reasonable price. With current interest levels, this looks like a dead duck. Looking at the other options, it looks like there's potential for a separate display / warning / logging system which can be mounted in the centre console, dash top or on top of the steering console. Currently some debate about size & shape - din standard to fit spare stereo hole is one option, but that's too big for steering column. Display size & readability is also very important. I'm curently looking at doing a PCB / display combination that can fit a stereo size din case and a smaller case so the customer can specify when ordering which size is wanted. I'm also looking at whether I can get the electronics for the whole thing in a shallow box without going surface mount (not efficient for quantities less than 500), if not I'll consider doing a separate display unit connecting via canbus - this may be a product in it's own right as an OBD driven display which is built in the car rather than via a phone. Currently looking at 12 analogue inputs (maybe 4 of them thermocouple for EGT), at least 2 digital inputs (RPM,speed), supply voltage built in, built in 3 axis G sensor, CAN bus (hopefully obd2), RS232. For anyone interested in the discussion on the DC (I think you can view without registering): http://www.gt4dc.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=6240 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thepowerofdiesel Posted January 23, 2013 Report Share Posted January 23, 2013 I like the idea of a Digital dash but at a reasonable cost, I just fear you would struggle to satisfy everyone's taste. I did ponder the idea of doing one myself, seen as neither of my GT4's have ODB output would be a challenge and good if I could get it right. Problem is I could see me only getting so far and no doubt would be half a job. For the moment in the 165 I have plumped for an Acewell unit, after finding my temp gauge is buggered. I hate the thought of gauges all over the show can look very untidy. Would be nice to replace the rev counter in the 165 with a screen to do away with the some what unreliable Temp, Oil pressure, Fuel gauge and boost gauge. Dont think a circular screen is financially available this said. To be fair the Acewell has a few little features like average speed, lap timers, adjustable temperature warning and even a rudimentary gear indicator that you program to rev,s and speed for forward and an input for reverse not that that is of much use im sure most of us know what gear we are in. Oh and it has an ODO on to make it road legal replacement. Would like to see what you evolve from your ideas, may be interested. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lta Posted January 24, 2013 Report Share Posted January 24, 2013 I like the idea of a full digital replacement for the GT4. I have a double din unit so wouldn't be too interested in the console one, plus I have 4 regular gauges, oil temp, oil pressure, water temp, boost, if these could be moved into a digital dash that would be awesome so I could go back to a standard looking dash at first glance through the windows. Awesome stuff if you do go ahead, I could probably get the cash together for it, if I got the permission slip signed by the mrs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Briano Posted January 24, 2013 Report Share Posted January 24, 2013 plus I have 4 regular gauges, oil temp, oil pressure, water temp, boost, if these could be moved into a digital dash that would be awesome so I could go back to a standard looking dash at first glance through the windows. the guy does make a good point, and at the price of good guages and then the hastle of wiring and buying gauge holders etc and cutting your dash....you would be better off probably financially paying around £300-£500 for a plug in unit it puts me off buying a car thats had stupid gauges cut into the dash and centre console as it looks messy I may be interested for the track car but would probably be too involved as the beams requires the beams clocks to activate the vvti, so have no idea if this would work on my car Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 26, 2013 Report Share Posted January 26, 2013 This is simply a brilliant idea, so long as it stays within the £500 as it looks like this would be the max reasonable to most of us giving that most of our cars have a market value of £5k (latest GT4's) Idea would be to make a generic dash to suit the ST20x and the ST18x as these would have the most takers. The 16x bunch is a lot less in numbers, but maybe the same generic dash would fit all as the sensors are 99% the same - I think I know I would like a digital dash Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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