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dublet

Celica sales figures

Question

So I was looking through Celica related information and I found this link giving sales figures for the Celica in the US.

 

dncz8o9.png

 

They're pretty stark figures. In the last year Toyota only managed to sell 9 in the whole of the US. :blink: Even the gen 6 was a disaster compared to the 5. And the gen 7 managed to outsell the 6 over there. Total figures are: 575,269 for the 5, 113,545 for the 6 and 154,125 for the 7.

 

http://carsalesbase.com/us-car-sales-data/toyota/toyota-celica/

 

Sadly the sales figures for Europe don't really go back all that far.

http://carsalesbase.com/european-car-sales-data/toyota/toyota-celica/

 

It's not really any wonder they discontinued the model.

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18 hours ago, Freeman558 said:

 

Rivals? I hope he wasn't talking about the cars I mentioned earlier.

 

The GT4 rivals or at least the cars that the GT4 was meant to compete with would be Evo IV's and Impreza WRX's. I would be surprised if it was pricey in comparison to them.

Also, the 4WD would bump the price up over a 2WD car.

 

My argument was always that the manufacturers always seemed to put more powerful engines into saloons or hatchbacks instead of their Coupe's.

Corolla T-Sport? Why didn't they put that super charger on the T-sport or GT? Ok it's only an extra 25hp but it takes it over the 200 mark.

 

Ignoring JDM models, The Honda Prelude never got as powerful H22a engine as the Accord Type R received and never received the Type R treatment as "It was already a sports car"

 

But, maybe you're right, the GT4 should, by my own logic and arguement, have sold better, maybe not as well as the Impreza's and Evo's but certainly much better than it did.

Here's Tiff about the ST185 and the MR2:

 

And Clarkson destroying the ST202 in a bit about coupes:

 

And then about the GT4:

 

So, the gen 6 was:

  • too ugly; and,
  • too expensive.

But that first video is really making me want to get a 5.

 

By your logic the MR2 should've been a bit of a sales success, which I don't think it was. Toyota used to put its most powerful engines in its coupes, the 3S-GTE and 7M-GTE, 1JZ-GTE. That changed with the 7.

 

1 hour ago, Cal670 said:

Coupes are a fashion item aswell as a car, and this has been the case for many, many years. Alot of (but not all) people who buy coupes brand new, are more concerned about looking good than going fast. They want people in the streets to see their stylish, and expensive car, and recognize their wealth and status. The performance is secondary to them, since they want to travel at a speed where they'll get noticed.

 

With the state of the roads nowadays, the increase in traffic over the last 20 years, not to mention the speed cameras and speed traps going up, there seems to be less and less point in having a really powerful car. IMO, handling is the most important performance characteristic in a car, and I think it's more true now than ever before. Atleast with a Celica, you can actually use the power you have most of the time, and not have to worry to speed limits too much. I would rather own a lower power car with an amazing chassis, than something than can do 0-60 in 5 seconds or so. I find it satisfying to drive a car which you can rev, but not get yourself into trouble.

 

Just my thoughts, nothing more.

Coupes may be a bit of a fashion item, but so are the Fiat 500. Ironically I think the 500 Abarth is quite desirable.

 

The fact is though that the lower powered versions will always outsell the higher powered ones, simply as most people want a good looking car but the best fuel economy, or simply the lowest cost car. And of course, when Toyota made a superb handling coupe with a low power engine that's very usable, what do people do? Complain about a lack of power!

 

Looking at the US sales for the Scion FR-S (which is what the GT86 is sold as in the States), we get the following sales figures:

 

 
Scion
FR-S
2016 7.457
2015 10.507
2014 14.062
2013 18.327
2012

11.417

 

 

Looks like it sold worse than the gen 6!

 

I think at the moment only Audi are making a decent coupe in the TT.

 

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A lot of the older gens were sold with the weaker powered engines as well.Ive seen plenty of the US guys with 162s seeing the 3sge as an actual upgrade.Though thats not the only factor.It shows that the figures tell that it was time for change.To be honest Toyota pretty much moved away from anything remotely performance based a long time back,though generally apart from the turbo cars the Celica was never really an out and out sports car,so i wonder which niche the Celica was going to fit into moving forwards.

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I recall seeing a figure of just 18,000 for US sales of the GT86 during its peak year (2013); guess that fits the trend.

Edited by bazz54

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It's understandable in Europe or at least the UK.

 

Front Wheel drive with not much power or practicality when compared to (even their own) hot hatch. Why go for a celica?

 

 

 

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7 hours ago, Sherv said:

A lot of the older gens were sold with the weaker powered engines as well.Ive seen plenty of the US guys with 162s seeing the 3sge as an actual upgrade.Though thats not the only factor.It shows that the figures tell that it was time for change.To be honest Toyota pretty much moved away from anything remotely performance based a long time back,though generally apart from the turbo cars the Celica was never really an out and out sports car,so i wonder which niche the Celica was going to fit into moving forwards.

 

2 hours ago, Freeman558 said:

It's understandable in Europe or at least the UK.

 

Front Wheel drive with not much power or practicality when compared to (even their own) hot hatch. Why go for a celica?

 

Does it really make sense? The gen 5 had very similar models to the 6, though the low power was a 1.6, not a 1.8. The 6 still had a high performance model, like the 5. So in pure performance terms, that surely can't be it.  If the points above were right, then how did they manage to sell five gen 5s for every gen 6? :blink: Having owned both, there's not really that much difference in terms of driving, power or general ownership terms.

 

Even the gen 7 managed to outsell the 6, which I thought was surprising, and that never really had a performance model (well, no 4WD or turbo). And the high and low power versions both had the same engine capacity.

 

I would be nice to get sales figures for gen 1-4 to see if the gen 5 was an outlier in terms of sales, or if the gen 6 doomed the series.

 

6 hours ago, bazz54 said:

I recall seeing a figure of just 18,000 for US sales of the GT86 during its peak year (2013); guess that fits the trend.

That would kind of suggest it's a one off model unlikely to have a successor.
 

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Coupes are about fashion. I would expect to see the same drop off in sales figures for similar coupe models from other manufacturers for that reason alone.

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With the US, Id imagine a lot of it do with tax. Sometime in that time line, car manufacturers (and buyers) clocked on to the fact that SUVs could be classed as business vehicles and 100% written off as tax on purchase - which led to a huge rise in popularity of SUVs around the same time of the decline shown above.

 

For UK figures try howmanyleft - im sure they have some figures on there of the original registrations - may not go back as far as the 5.

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2 hours ago, Kev 16v said:

Coupes are about fashion. I would expect to see the same drop off in sales figures for similar coupe models from other manufacturers for that reason alone.

 

Agreed, Motoring journalists are always citing the Hot Hatch as being the death of the Coupe, the coupe just no long being fashionable for people that wanted a cheap performance car. It didn't help that the coupes were often based on a sensible four door family saloon.

 

Honda's Prelude (Killed off after the 5th Gen) With the 5th Gen Honda had, apparently, listened to their customers who wanted a larger boot and a cheaper car. The result was that it sold worse than the 4th Gen.

Ford's Probe and Cougar (Of course you could blame the Probes failure on Alan Partridge :D )

Vauxhall's Calibra

 

As far as I know these were all flops which, imo, was because they didn't offer anything you couldn't get with a more practical saloon. I am also pretty sure all of these are based on a four door saloon, Accord, Modeo and Vectra and in the end the saloon models had higher performance engines (at least in the UK market) so there wasn't really anything better about these Coupes except appearance and the Hot Hatch had already stolen the coupe market for affordable performance car.

 

I've forgotten what my point was or if I ever had one...
...Hmmm I might need a distraction..

 

Look! An Eagle

 

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My apologies..I wasn't referring to hot hatches as competition, although of course they are, and really should have been a bit more specific. What I meant was, most new car buyers will buy a coupe because it's a new model, and fashionable to be seen driving a new shape version. Once that shape has been around for two or three years, the same new coupe buyers are then in the market for something only recently made available.

 

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10 hours ago, ams said:

With the US, Id imagine a lot of it do with tax. Sometime in that time line, car manufacturers (and buyers) clocked on to the fact that SUVs could be classed as business vehicles and 100% written off as tax on purchase - which led to a huge rise in popularity of SUVs around the same time of the decline shown above.

 

For UK figures try howmanyleft - im sure they have some figures on there of the original registrations - may not go back as far as the 5.

That's a fair point.  There's certainly something to be said about SUV popularity in the 90s in the US. One wouldn't have thought that people interested in coupes could be that interested in SUVs, :think: as we're all such dedicated followers of fashion.  :blink: I guess the price motive is a powerful one.

 

howmanyleft doesn't go very far back.

 

The hot hatch theory is interesting. I don't think Toyota ever did a proper hot hatch, only ever lukewarm ones at best.

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Also around the late 90s / early 00s, people started taking more of an interest in MPG and you started seeing it printed at the bottom of adverts, the rise and popularity of the diesel also coincided with this. My mate who runs a petrol station used to sell less than 10% diesel around 20 years ago (when I worked on his till) - now its over 50%.

 

The 6 and 7 at there time of release were  a sort of half way house (with the exception of the gt4)  - not huge performance or huge MPG so perhaps a limited market

 

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I wonder if Toyota missed a beat by not having a diesel gen 6 & 7. Imagine a 2AD-FHV gen 7 with 177bhp and 400Nm@2krpm. :D

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IIRC it was around that time diesel coupes were starting to appear. Remember when Peugeot made a 406 coupe diesel? Ironically I could actually have seen a diesel Celica selling fairly well over here! :lol:

Edited by Cal670

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On 11/04/2017 at 20:39, dublet said:

I wonder if Toyota missed a beat by not having a diesel gen 6 & 7. Imagine a 2AD-FHV gen 7 with 177bhp and 400Nm@2krpm. :D

 

I agree BUT Toyota have been very reluctant with diesels. Until about 2000 most of the car diesels were Peugeot units (which were actually very good back then)

 

With Lexus, they always said they didnt want to put a diesel engine in until they were happy with it, they eventually did and then they saw a big boost in sales BUT they dropped diesels quite quickly again because although they were reliable they couldnt match the 300,000 mile reliability of the petrol engines. The word is that they will return to the coupe market with a hybrid, My next newish car purchase im planning on is an rc300h unless they bring back the celica badge (silly I know)

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I wouldn't hold out much hope for the next Toyota Coupe. I know there's a Supra-esque car in the pipeline. But look at their latest model..

 

toyota-chr-2016-exterior-tme-001-a-full_

:blink:

 

There's not many new-ish cars I actually find interesting. If anything, I would be very tempted by a Tesla Model 3. :o

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 Interesting comments regarding the decline of coupes, I currently have a Celica gen 6 and I also own a 93 Calibra redtop. Im 23 so missed when coupes were big in the 90s but I absolutely love them!

 

I believe the Calibra could have been great, I think it stills looks fantastic even today however with a cavalier chassis and uninspiring engines like  the 8valve engine and 16 valve ecotech it was always going to be the "poor mans coupe" After buying my celica I don't know why anyone would buy a Calibra tbh better in every way I can think of!

 

Theres a guy on my street with a turbo Fiat Coupe, remember them?

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18 hours ago, fruitloop said:

Theres a guy on my street with a turbo Fiat Coupe, remember them?

 

I'm surprised they didn't catch on more as they were extremely quick for their time. I guess the styling was too "love it or hate it" for most people. Personally, I love it.

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On 10/04/2017 at 21:16, dublet said:

The hot hatch theory is interesting. I don't think Toyota ever did a proper hot hatch, only ever lukewarm ones at best.

 

That's about to change, the new Yaris GRMN looks like the real deal and the specs are decent.

 

01_yaris_grmn_34front.jpg?mode=max&quali

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4 hours ago, EasyRight89 said:

That's about to change, the new Yaris GRMN looks like the real deal and the specs are decent.

Too little, too late? Watch it flop.

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