Jump to content

Intermittent Engine Cutting Out - ST183 Gen 5


Recommended Posts

Hi there! I am new to this group. I bought my imported Toyota Celica Convertible (1992) in 2007. I have had no trouble with her she has been serviced every year, has had her cambelt changed and has sailed through her MOTs, with just a little hesitation on the emissions! I never have to top up her oil in between services and I'm told that the colour is good! BUT, about 3 months ago I was about 5 minutes from home and the engine management light came on and she cut out and wouldn't restart. I left her for 10 minutes and tried again and she was fine. The next day I put a can of injection cleaner in her and she was fine.

A couple of weeks later I took her to Coventry as my fiance lives there, and after a couple more weeks he was driving her and she did it again, about 5 minutes from home. We waited and she was ok after about 10 minutes. Alan has been a mechanic for 40+ years and he thought it seemed like petrol starvation. He checked and replaced the fuel filter which was very old and very difficult to get off!

I drove back to Cornwall a few days later and she was fine. The day after I got here I went to get some shopping and about 5 minutes from home it happened again. I waited for 10 minutes and she was fine.

After that if I was thinking about going out in her I would run her on the drive for 10 minutes before driving her, and she was fine except for one evening a couple of weeks ago. She cut out on the drive, so I left her for 10 minutes and then drove off in her. When I came out of the golf club I got about 5 minutes from there and she cut out. I left her for 10 minutes but no joy. I waited 30 minutes, but she wouldn't fire up. I called the recovery people who left me for 2 hours, he turned up and of course she fired up! He followed me home and she cut out just as I pulled onto my drive.

The next 3 days I ran the engine on my drive and she cut out every time. I called a mechanic out, but of course she behaved impeccably for him. The fault codes led him to change the coil, distributor cap and rotar arm, and she still ran fine for him, but the day after when I drove her she cut out just down the road. I left her for a couple of hours then walked back down the road. I slackened the petrol cap and she ran fine again. I have just run her for 10 minutes on the drive and she was fine. I have been told it could be a weakening fuel pump, a clogged up EGR valve or a duff ECU. Anybody had this happen? Any thoughts as to what I should try next? I am a dumb blonde senior lady and am a bit stuck with this one!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It could be similar to the problems I've had with mine for months. We changed my fuel filter (or rather the garage did!), but it still continued to happen at all sorts of speeds and revs. It could well have been the same problem that I posted about last year when I had the loss of power at high speed and stalling. (http://www.celica-club.co.uk/forum/index.php?/topic/168605-total-loss-of-power-at-high-speed/) . My car stalled just as we turned into Prescott at the June meet earlier this month. I was occasionally getting fault codes 12 and 54.

Paulus3476 had suggested a fix on the diagnostic box, which enables the fuel pump to run at full speed instead of half speed at lower revs (he'll put me right if I've got that wrong!). The fix involves leaving a section of paperclip in two ports. 1600GT Celica who lives locally kindly did it for me, and so far I have not had a problem during the last week :D . I just need to do one final test of hammering it down our local bypass for a length of time to see if anything happens. I would need to go out to check which ports, unless Paul posts about it first.

Apparently there is a thread on here somewhere that covers it, but I haven't searched for it yet.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I had a car many years ago with a similar fault. Drives perfect most of the time then strangely cuts out with out warning and then refuses to start. After countless confused months in and out of garages. It turns out the petrol tank started flaking on the inside and the flakes blocked the petrol line staving the engine. Left for a while the fakes would settle down again enough to allow petrol the to flow again, only found this out by fitting a in line see through petrol filter.

Had to get a new petrol tank fitted an pipes flushed though, but it never happened again.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Sounds similar to my gen5 - in the end it was the Ecu - but you really need to test everything when it happens.

When mine played up there was no power to the coil pack.

I would leave it with your fiancé and ask him to check in the following sequence when it plays up

Check for spark at the leads

Check for spark at the coil pack

If no spark at the coil pack - then check for power into the plug at the coil pack

Also worth leaving the back seat off so you can check the fuel pump supply and if it's working when the problem occurs.

I have a fuel pump, distributor and lots of other bits from my old st183 convertible if you find any are faulty. I have used the Ecu in my other gen5

Where abouts are you?

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I've just been out to test mine at full boost and doing 90-95 mph for a few mins - and all seems well :) I've just done a pic of the diagnostics box and the paperclip goes from top left Fp to bottom left +B ports. You can see the piece of paperclip in the photo - works so far!

Obviously, your problem may be different to mine, so take the advice of the guys on here first to see what you can run down or eliminate.

Fuel%20pump%20fix%20in%20diagnostics_zps

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks thermoacc I will ask him for the error codes, as he didn't tell me what they were.

Thanks ams. I live in Cornwall and my fiance lives in Coventry. It's a bit difficult to leave it with him as I'm too scared to even attempt to drive it 260 miles at the minute.

He will be coming down here soon to see me, and I can only hope it plays up for him. She didn't play up when I called a local mechanic out.

I like the paperclip idea CheltGirl. At least that doesn't cost an arm and a leg!

I will relay all of your suggestions so far to my Alan.

Thanks.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

First port of call would definately be check the error codes. No special equipment needed (a paperclip). The following guide applies to the 182 as well as the GT4 shown although some error codes don't apply.

http://www.gt4dc.co.uk/info/howto/ecu/ecu_error_codes.htm

There is a possible known fault on the 18x ECU's but I don't think your sypmtoms quite match. Worth a look though, the ECU is located behind the centre console above the exhaust tunnel. Pull back the carpet to access.

http://www.celica-club.co.uk/forum/index.php?/topic/148489-heads-up-common-gen-5-ecu-problem/

Do you have an immobiliser fitted ?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Picking up on chelt girls comment , her carlos saint has exhibited exactly the same symptoms and we had tried most things to cure it.

It appears the cs gen 5 and maybe yours has a relay on the fuel pump which reduces the voltage to make it quieter at low revs , and over a certain RPM then the relay boosts the voltage to allow the pump to run at full power.

In view of the fact that if its a pump problem you may be able to get at the pump as it might have an access point to the tank , however if its crud in the tank and it needs to come out , then it could be expensive.

One of the gen 5 guys ( paulus, if he would be so kind ) needs to confirm whether your car is likely to have the two phase power supply to the pump and if so then the paperclip trick must be first port of call , as it appears the relay detioriates with age. You have nothing to lose by trying this first and if ir solves it fine, if not its a hunt elsewhere , maybe muck in the tank but it definitely sounds like a fuel starvation problem.

Edited by 1600GTCelica
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

14- Igniter/ECU

Possible circuit fault from igniter to ECU. May just be a poor connection. Unplug and push back in a few times on igniter and ECU connections.

Possible faulty igniter module, but the car runs normally for a good while?

Always worth removing the module and coil including the brackets, cleaning the mounting areas and refitting to ensure a good earth.

I'm sure there will be other suggestions for you to check.

Hope you sort it soon :thumbs:

Edited by thermoacc
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Check the Earths on the igniter and coil. It may be a single assembly on a bracket with a wire connecting the two from memory. Particularly check the threads on the mounting bolts and tapped holes on the bulkhead aren't rusty.

Clear the fault codes by resetting the ECU as per the link above and see what comes back.

Only the GT4 variants have the dual speed fuel pump, the GE engine just has the 'circuit opening relay' which is on a bracket on the side of the ECU.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

p.s. you will find this useful.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/8316230/download_pdf/Wiring-Supp.3S-GTE_3S-GE_5S-FE_ST185RC.pdf

p106/107 - fuel pump

p108 - ignite & coil. (Earths aren't shown but are vital)

p9 efi fuse location (to clear error codes)

p35 - location of coil & igniter. (Looks like they are not on same bracket on the gen 5)

I would guess the problem is more likely with the igniter than the coil.

Edited by _Chris_
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 4 weeks later...

Hiya, thanks everybody for all your suggestions. We have tried them all. We have come to the conclusion that it must be a faulty ECU. TCB didn't have one that fit my car (89661-2S230). We have taken it to be tested and repaired. Fingers crossed this does the trick..

Link to comment
Share on other sites

My ECU has come back and the engineer has rebuilt the 5V system supply, the fuel pump and injection control circuit. I'm hoping this will solve the problem. Now to find someone to put it back in the car. I've contacted an auto electrics person who wants £50. My Alan who took it out says that it should take about half an hour! The joys of owning a car eh?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

ECU has been re-fitted for a tenner. I'm happy with that. I ran her for a good half hour last night, and I have taken her out locally this morning. So far so good. I will be braver tomorrow. I'm finding it hard to have confidence in her, but I guess that will come back the more days that go by without her cutting out. I have to take her for her MOT later this week. This is not the time to be a wuss!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.