Intercooler on N/A engine

[Limeymk1]

individual throttle bodies. or ITB's are the best intake modification you can do to a normally aspirated engine. would love some for mine but they are very expensive for the full set up. but the noise is simply epic!

Edited April 23, 2014 by Limeymk1

[shaun_89]

I would be careful listening to so called experts on any forum. If your genuinely interested in finding gains and improving your engine then I'd highly recommend both the n/a and turbo tuning books by A.Graham.Bell

An intercooler wouldn't work on an n/a engine due to simple physics. I don't mean to come across blunt, but if it worked all n/a motor sport engines would be running an intercooler.

[Zuban]

Those are very good books indeed well worth a read.

What wilo was asking wasn't about simply fitting an intercooler to an NA engine, but something more like a chargecooler where your pumping fluid that's below ambient temp to reduce the intake charge below ambient aswell. Ford did something called the supercooler, which used the air con to cool the fluid in a chargecooler, although that was still on a forced induction engine. Its not that silly an idea its just that in practical terms its unlikely to work well enough to be worthwhile.

[wilo]

Those are very good books indeed well worth a read.

What wilo was asking wasn't about simply fitting an intercooler to an NA engine, but something more like a chargecooler where your pumping fluid that's below ambient temp to reduce the intake charge below ambient aswell. Ford did something called the supercooler, which used the air con to cool the fluid in a chargecooler, although that was still on a forced induction engine. Its not that silly an idea its just that in practical terms its unlikely to work well enough to be worthwhile.

cheers for clarifying that pal .

And yes i know the principles of how an intercooler works on a turbo,d engine and was more investigating a modified system ...glad you understand me lol .

Wasn't aware that ford had already stole my idea ,,,,,,how did it work for them in regards of performance ?

I know as you pointed out that theirs was run on a forced induction system but surly the benefits would be transferred to a N/A engine ...just in lesser amounts i would assume

[Zuban]

not sure tbh theres not a whole lot of facts out there about it, I do think its one of those things that in theory its a good idea, but in practice the complications and benefits just don't add up, otherwise it would be pretty common on forced induction, let alone on an NA.

[wilo]

I would be careful listening to so called experts on any forum. If your genuinely interested in finding gains and improving your engine then I'd highly recommend both the n/a and turbo tuning books by A.Graham.Bell

An intercooler wouldn't work on an n/a engine due to simple physics. I don't mean to come across blunt, but if it worked all n/a motor sport engines would be running an intercooler.

Thanks for the heads up and yeah i think iv already worked out which people know their stuff on here .

In regards to those books ill definitely try source them out as im very interested in improving the beams through N/A power preferably .

And while i already know an intercooler wouldn't work on a N/A engine in its standard form/setup i much prefer bluntness and directness as things get done quicker that way and tbh iv a lot to learn about this motor

[dublet]

I know as you pointed out that theirs was run on a forced induction system but surly the benefits would be transferred to a N/A engine ...just in lesser amounts i would assume

No it wouldn't as with NA the engine has to suck the air through the sytem. The more effort this takes, the worse the car performs. It works well with FI as that is less of a concern with the compressor working to force air through.

[Zuban]

Thanks for the heads up and yeah i think iv already worked out which people know their stuff on here .

In regards to those books ill definitely try source them out as im very interested in improving the beams through N/A power preferably .

And while i already know an intercooler wouldn't work on a N/A engine in its standard form/setup i much prefer bluntness and directness as things get done quicker that way and tbh iv a lot to learn about this motor

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Four-stroke-Performance-Tuning-Graham-Bell/dp/0857331256

that's the book.

I did a bit more reading on the ford supercooler and its not quite what I thought it was at first, its more like a storage tank air cooled by the air con compressor that you can use when you want, a bit like a shot of nitrous in a way.

[Zuban]

No it wouldn't as with NA the engine has to suck the air through the sytem. The more effort this takes, the worse the car performs. It works well with FI as that is less of a concern with the compressor working to force air through.

the other way round, as pressure drop across an intercooler increases as boost increases, at ambient pressure you could probably negate the intake resistance by sitting your intake in the front bumper in a way that take advantage of the ram air effect. The problem would be finding a system that would cool the intake charge enough to increase power without costing more power in terms of driving pumps etc, or negate the added weight.

Edited April 27, 2014 by Zuban

[shaun_89]

I'm sure no one has actually addressed the issue of intake temperature realistically.

Starting with forced induction:

Simply, compressing gas of any description creates heat meaning less density.

The intercooler/charge cooler is there to exchange heat and try and bring down the intake temperature of the compressed inlet charge. Most of these are 40 - 70% efficient in reality.

The problem with this on an n/a engine is that your inlet charge is already ambient temperature. So your trying to reduce the temperature beyond this which a normal intercooler isn't realistically possible.

If your happen to be running your beams in a boat then you can use the water to create a charge cooling system beyond 100% efficient as the water is colder than the ambient air. Even this would probably be unsuccessful due to the restriction across the heat exchanger.

Also any hope of using air con system to cool the charge ha to be run off the engine and simply could not offer the vast amount of air your engine requires

Edited April 27, 2014 by shaun_89

[Zuban]

If your happen to be running your beams in a boat then you can use the water to create a charge cooling system beyond 100% efficient as the water is colder than the ambient air. Even this would probably be unsuccessful due to the restriction across the heat exchanger.

forget the rest, replace the water with a fluid cooled by your air con. This is what we are talking about, and remember at ambient pressure the restriction across the heat exchanger will be a lot less than when running boost and efficiency will not be the same, your standard intake with paper filters etc already provides plenty of resistance, and there are ways to negate that. The problem is you probably cant cool the fluid efficiently enough to produce a positive power benefit.

Edited April 27, 2014 by Zuban