wilo Posted April 19, 2014 Report Share Posted April 19, 2014 I know the basics of how an air-air intercooler works on a turbo,d car bringing the compressed air back to ambient air temp . But was thinking would (if it were possible) an intercooler be beneficial to a N/A engine if the problems with air flow restriction through the intercooler internals could be over come and if the temperature could be lowered below ambient temp . I have read that for every 10 degrees F that the temp is lowed on an average N/A engine it would give around 9 bhp so quite good gains if it were possible and if the temp could be lowered enough . Whats your thoughts guys . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dublet Posted April 19, 2014 Report Share Posted April 19, 2014 (edited) Great idea. Though the NA engine wouldn't suck much air though it. Maybe if you had some sort of compressor that could force the air through the intercooler. But then you have to drive that compressor somehow. Perhaps you could do this by harnessing the exhaust fumes somehow, perhaps like a device with two blades connected via a common shaft. Edited April 19, 2014 by dublet 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wilo Posted April 19, 2014 Author Report Share Posted April 19, 2014 Great idea. Though the NA engine wouldn't suck much air though it. Maybe if you had some sort of compressor that could force the air through the intercooler. But then you have to drive that compressor somehow. Perhaps you could do this by harnessing the exhaust fumes somehow, perhaps like a device with two blades connected via a common shaft. All we need now is for one of the forum mechanical geniuses to come up with a prototype . It would need something based on how a domestic fridge works combined with your idea of recirculating the exhaust gases to drive a pump to force the air through . wouldn't be as bigger job as fitting a full turbo kit and would give pretty decent gains if achievable I recon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ant Baker Posted April 19, 2014 Report Share Posted April 19, 2014 I believe dubs was sarcastically describing a turbo charger... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wilo Posted April 19, 2014 Author Report Share Posted April 19, 2014 I believe dubs was sarcastically describing a turbo charger... But im talking about N/A engines ??? I did state I know the principles of how it works on a turbo,d car . Should of known better tbh than expect anything else from him. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ant Baker Posted April 19, 2014 Report Share Posted April 19, 2014 Haha yeah i know you did mate, dubs will be dubs!!! Tbh it is a good idea but i dont think it is feasable i mean if you were to knock up a 'pump' you would just be talking about a supercharger but in smaller measures and less power...unfortunately without the pressure to force it through the system i think you will cause more problems due to intake air flow...closest i believe you will get on an N/A engine is a cold air intake taken from the fog light housing on the bumper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wilo Posted April 19, 2014 Author Report Share Posted April 19, 2014 what got me thinking about all this was I reading some guys thread on an American forum regarding the topic and it seemed quite interesting . also the debate about cold air feed induction came up there to and there was a lot of controversy about whether the 1-2 bhp difference from cold air vs short ram is really worth it ...something about the hotter air from short ram allowing the fuel to burn more efficiently and more cleanly and something about shorter rams (between 12"-18" max) giving better throttle response . very interesting read from a lot of seemingly clued up lads on the topics they were discussing . Also there weren't any sarcastic twats on the yank forum which helped keep the topic on focus 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Red Celica Posted April 19, 2014 Report Share Posted April 19, 2014 An Electric Supecharger through an intercooler? giving a net benefit of -6Bhp? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wilo Posted April 19, 2014 Author Report Share Posted April 19, 2014 An Electric Supecharger through an intercooler? giving a net benefit of -6Bhp? yeah iv read about about those leccy supper chargers. Not very comments on any reviews iv read so far .....also is that a mistake or did you meen to put - 6BHP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Red Celica Posted April 19, 2014 Report Share Posted April 19, 2014 The minus sign is correct 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wilo Posted April 19, 2014 Author Report Share Posted April 19, 2014 just been reading that even the more expensive electric super charges that actually do force air can cause the car to run lean as there is nothing in the kit to increase fuel delivery ...so a very bad idea yeah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrianGT Posted April 19, 2014 Report Share Posted April 19, 2014 It's basically called "parasitic conversion" in that anything you add to the engine has to be driven in some way.........it doesn't come free..........and you have to add up the power needed to drive it against the power it produces.......that's it in basic terms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sonic Posted April 19, 2014 Report Share Posted April 19, 2014 Any increase , if any would be offsetted by the extra weight of the set up , you could gain nothing yet end up with a car weighing 20kgs heavier , slow slower , a simple straight swap from the Oem panel filter to a perfoance one would give you better gains , sadly unless you spend thousands on your beams keeping it n/a then there is very little gains to be had Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wilo Posted April 20, 2014 Author Report Share Posted April 20, 2014 Any increase , if any would be offsetted by the extra weight of the set up , you could gain nothing yet end up with a car weighing 20kgs heavier , slow slower , a simple straight swap from the Oem panel filter to a perfoance one would give you better gains , sadly unless you spend thousands on your beams keeping it n/a then there is very little gains to be had Tbh mate it wasn't something I was planning for the beams . I was just getting opinions on the probability of it working on any N/A engine as the thread I was reading the info on got me thinking that's all . And yeah im kinda getting content with the beams now as it is ....don't really want a GT4 and been told turboing the Beams etc would be very expensive and could cause problems down the line so looks like she is staying as it is.......for now It's basically called "parasitic conversion" in that anything you add to the engine has to be driven in some way.........it doesn't come free..........and you have to add up the power needed to drive it against the power it produces.......that's it in basic terms. yeah the American Lads were talking about this too but called it something different to parasitic conversion .....same argument tho Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dublet Posted April 20, 2014 Report Share Posted April 20, 2014 But im talking about N/A engines ??? I did state I know the principles of how it works on a turbo,d car . Should of known better tbh than expect anything else from him. What you want is to turbo charge your engine but you don't want the cost. Another way of lowering the temperature of the inlet air is water injection. However, that also has a weight penalty in terms of needing to have a water reservoir on board, making any performance gains of that worth less. Given that almost every other topic of yours is "how do I get more power from my Beams", I don't think you're content with the car at all but hey ho. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_Chris_ Posted April 20, 2014 Report Share Posted April 20, 2014 Why not add a dump valve while you're at it Serious mode Firstly find some realistic figures, as it will be % increase per degree not absolute bhp per degree. if this figure were accurate then an induction kit would lose about 20-30 bhp and the car would have about 40 but more on a frosty morning than midsummer. the gains from colder intake air are twofold. Firstly cold air is denser so you have more oxygen per cylinder to react with more fuel. Secondly it takes you further from detonation so you can run more advance / higher compression ratio. To achieve lower temps would require chilling. Two common methods, one is evaporation of liquid in the airstream ( spray bar ) the other would be to use the aircon system to refrigerate the intercooler. The second option would draw power from the engine which would probably be greater than the gain. Both would add significant weight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digs Posted April 20, 2014 Report Share Posted April 20, 2014 (edited) Sounds like you want to play around with the engine and mods etc, which I admit is lots of fun, but you really want to turbo it for any of these things to make a difference. If that's not the route, maybe leave the engine alone and do some other styling/suspension etc mods ? If what dubs says is true really, what you really want is a nice white twin turbo supra..... Edited April 20, 2014 by digs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scottish Storm Posted April 20, 2014 Report Share Posted April 20, 2014 Sounds like nitros would be more what you're looking for imho. Give the boost when you want it without a huge weight issue otherwise. Sent from my Windows Phone 8S by HTC using Tapatalk 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulgtt Posted April 20, 2014 Report Share Posted April 20, 2014 Be the easiest and possiibly cheapest way. As long as its setup properely there won't be "danger to manifold" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digs Posted April 20, 2014 Report Share Posted April 20, 2014 Sounds like nitros would be more what you're looking for imho. Give the boost when you want it without a huge weight issue otherwise. Sent from my Windows Phone 8S by HTC using Tapatalk That's sounds like a good solution, Wilo, do it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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