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Rust Killing Paints


bazz54

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iv used seam sealer on some parts, it puts a rubberish coating over where you apply it and its softish to the touch once dry and flexable., will do more of the car with it in summer and take pics to show how it looks.

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Subsequent to my OP, I did a bit of digging for info and found that the two paints I quite like these days (Hammerite's Beat Rust and Screwfix's Red Oxide) turn out to both be zinc phosphate paints. The Screwfix stuff is actually made by Johnstones, who are a top British company and part of the worldwide PPG group, and as well as making domestic paints, they do paints for little things like oil rigs, bridges etc. I was lucky to spot a 5L tin of Johnstones industrial "fast drying zinc phosphate" going very cheap on eBay and have just used that for the first time today, and not surprisingly, it appeared in all respects to be exactly like the Screwfix red oxide. The things I like about this stuff are (i) it is a very good "wetting" paint that seems to adsorb on to surfaces really well, doesn't need much brushing in and (ii) even without a top coat, seems quite good are arresting/preventing rust. The ebay seller also had 5L of Johnstones industrial semi-gloss, high-build top coat, so that's going on next.

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I had bad experience with hammerite many years ago in that I painted the drivers floorpan which had surface rust on it. 6 months later my foot went through it. I was an old escort though so made out of baked bean cans.

I tend to be a bit skeptical about some of the newer 'wonderpaints' for the same reason, so I tend to go the more traditional route of red oxide paint onto the metal. I then tend to do a layer of 'conformal coating' - something we use in electronics as it's moisture repellant, and finally a layer of underseal for it's anto chip properties.

I have been told waxoil isn't great on the exterior as it's too soft and gets washed / brushed off fairly quickly. I normally use this for inner structure such as inside sills, doors etc.

The most important thing is to get as much rust as possible off first, and above all ensure it's absolutetly dry so you're not sealing in moisture - otherwise it will rot quicker than ever. Don't underestimate how long it takes for moisture to evaporate from nooks & crannies - especially if there is still dirt or rust in them.

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I tend to be a bit skeptical about some of the newer 'wonderpaints' for the same reason, so I tend to go the more traditional route of red oxide paint onto the metal.

Yeah, but the problem is that the term "red oxide" now refers only to the colour of the paint and gives you no info whatsoever about what kind of paint it is.

Originally, red oxide referred to paint containing red lead oxide, which was a good corrosion inhibitor, but is now banned. Buying red oxide paint now is just a lottery, unless you get some tech info from the supplier.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Red oxide is normally a 2 pack paint used obviously on ferrous metals as a primer coat, plenty of people still use it and you can easily buy it of the shelf. I use it a lot at my workplace a to apply a base coat on equipment that needs refurbishing to neutralise any existing rust and to stop any further rust. To be honest the best way to really kill rust is to remove it totally ie if it's surface rust then grind or sand it away, if it's actually penetrated right into the metal then you will have to cut it out and then weld a new piece on place, from then you obviously put your primer on then your top coat then your lacquer.

I had bad experience with hammerite many years ago in that I painted the drivers floorpan which had surface rust on it. 6 months later my foot went through it. I was an old escort though so made out of baked bean cans.

I tend to be a bit skeptical about some of the newer 'wonderpaints' for the same reason, so I tend to go the more traditional route of red oxide paint onto the metal. I then tend to do a layer of 'conformal coating' - something we use in electronics as it's moisture repellant, and finally a layer of underseal for it's anto chip properties.

I have been told waxoil isn't great on the exterior as it's too soft and gets washed / brushed off fairly quickly. I normally use this for inner structure such as inside sills, doors etc.

The most important thing is to get as much rust as possible off first, and above all ensure it's absolutetly dry so you're not sealing in moisture - otherwise it will rot quicker than ever. Don't underestimate how long it takes for moisture to evaporate from nooks & crannies - especially if there is still dirt or rust in them.

Yer wax oil on it's own will do nothing but wash off after a couple of months, what you need to do is put shilts on (don't know if I have actually spelt that right) which is oil based which hardens after a couple of hours, it also disk in to the metal an neutralises any rust that is present, you then put wax oil over the top of this and to my understanding because of the different chemical properties of the shilts, the wax oil tends to stick to the shilts a lot better and lasts so much longer.

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To be honest the best way to really kill rust is to remove it totally ie if it's surface rust then grind or sand it away, if it's actually penetrated right into the metal then you will have to cut it out and then weld a new piece on place, from then you obviously put your primer on then your top coat then your lacquer.

Those comments are absolutely true, and if you can get something in to a workshop and have easy access to all the surfaces, fine. But that strategy is harder to live up to if you're dealing with the underside of a 15 year old car, and even more so if it's just sitting on axle stands. Under those circumstances you're probably going end up with 4 kinds of surface;

i) areas in original condition and still good

ii) areas which rusted and you were able to do a really good job or brushing or grinding back

iii) areas which rusted, but were hard to get at and you did "the best you could"; there may be some traces of rust left.

iv) areas so badly rusted, welding is required

So you have to decide are you going to re-paint each of those areas in different ways, or adopt a compromise solution to cover everything.

I think the outcome here is that there is no one perfect answer and ultimately, people will tend to go with the approach they believe has previously worked well for themselves or their friends. That said, I suspect that there are some totally over-rated products out there, and some of them have managed to stay around for a long time and some have big price tickets!

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During the course of my project build i have done a bit of research into rust removal and the options out there if you dont own a welder/sand blaster or grinder.

I am a big fan of Bilt Hamber products, if there is something that you can remove from your car then their Deox C powder os brilliant, you make up a solution by mixing it in water and submerse the part in it.

This is a rear diff i did a year or so ago.

Before

image_zpsexzpci44.jpeg

After

image_zpskcdk4ofv.jpeg

all i did was give it a light scrubbing with a wire brush, i just left it in the solution for about two weeks.

The gell they have is almost as good, but you can paint it onto parts that you cant submerse in the solution, i did my rusty boot lid this week and its come out looking great, no rust at all.

(and no Coke, vinegar etc wont do the same job....i tried it)

After that i have tried a couple of paints,at first i went with a highly recommended product called POR15 rust preventing paint, which i am not a great fan of to be honest, it has a great finish, very smooth and glossy, even when applied with a brush, it just dosnt stick to rust free metal very well, its good if you want to paint over rust, but thats not really the right way to do it.

After that i tried Epoxy Mastix 121 & Epoxy Mastic 421, both very good, the 121 is for the underside and chassis, the 421 is for body panels, both spray on with a gun, and both give a great finish on which to apply the next coat. expensive, but i highly recommend them both. (dont hand paint them with a brush as the finish is rubbish if you do) Not really rust killing paints, but they will help prevent it from coming back.

on top of that you can ut your desired stone guard, there are lots out there and a couple of very good ones, 3M & Soudal spring to mind, i have tried both and prefer the Soudal but they are both pretty much of a muchness. You can paint over the Soudal to match the colour of your car.

The next step of rust defence (which is the last thing you should do) is using a cavity wax. Now i know that loads of people recommend Waxol, but to be honest i hate the stuff, there is much better out there. i tried the winner of the car restorers magazine long term test Noxudol 700, it comes is a can and a canister to attach to a compressor, its quite thin so it leaches into the gaps between metal panels, after about 4 days it waxes up and remains in place. unlike waxol it dosnt harden up and crack.

Edited by Insanity-74
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Been watching this thread with interest, as my celica has rusty wheel arches and bottom of the doors, nothing to serious but wanted to sort them properly. Just ordered from bilt hamber.

1kg tub deox-gel

Item Number 1kg-tub-deox-Gel £10.79 GBP 1 £10.79 GBP

1ltr pail electrox x1

Item Number 1ltr-pail-electrox £29.13 GBP 1 £29.13 GBP

dynax SEAM

Item Number dynax seam £14.12 GBP 1 £14.12 GBP

Hopefully these should do the job, will let you know how I get on.

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